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Work progress - 0.9.7.2
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| Dwarden | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 01:20 | Message # 976 |
 Astronaut
Group: SE team
Czech Republic
Messages: 63
Status: Offline
| speaking of issues with sizes, I suggest to have 2 or 3 install packages of SpaceEngine,
e.g. Lite, Normal and HD 
this would allow you to separate specific data sets (until in future to have ondemand background download/updates)
+ interesting picture formats like BPG which might be good to try in both lossless and lossy compression variants
http://bellard.org/bpg/
http://bellard.org/bpg/bpg_spec.txt
Ideas are like ocean w/o borders! https://twitter.com/FoltynD
Edited by Dwarden - Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 03:52 |
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| Destructor1701 | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 02:13 | Message # 977 |
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Pioneer
Group: Users
Ireland
Messages: 533
Status: Offline
| Quote SpaceEngineer (  ) It was produced from the LOLA LDEM map
LOLA seemingly stands for "Lots Of Linear Artefacts".
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| FastFourierTransform | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 08:59 | Message # 978 |
 Pioneer
Group: Local Moderators
Spain
Messages: 542
Status: Offline
| Quote Karakurt ( ) For sure. But I don't understand: how and why 64k can look better than a 4X lower resolution?
You mean higher no?
I also don't understand that. Beside the issue of the artefacts, I can't see any important improvement. How is possible that between the two last pictures I can't see anything getting in higher resolution?
I think I didn't understand well.
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| Fireinthehole | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 09:14 | Message # 979 |
 Pioneer
Group: Translators
Sweden
Messages: 356
Status: Offline
| Quote FastFourierTransform ( ) You mean higher no?
I also don't understand that. Beside the issue of the artefacts, I can't see any important improvement. How is possible that between the two last pictures I can't see anything getting in higher resolution?
I think I didn't understand well.
Maybe the data is of so poor quality that it doesn't give any actual better resolution?
Love SpaceEngine!
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 10:46 | Message # 980 |
 Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Quote Dwarden ( ) + interesting picture formats like BPG which might be good to try in both lossless and lossy compression variants
Oh, thanks for pointing into it.
Quote FastFourierTransform ( ) I also don't understand that. Beside the issue of the artefacts, I can't see any important improvement. How is possible that between the two last pictures I can't see anything getting in higher resolution?
Because real LRO resolution is near 64k. On the better res maps individual lidar scans become visible. They used some interpolation between scans, resulting in banding artifacts (resolution along the scan is pretty, few meters I think, but a distance between neighbouring scans is nearly 100 meters). Look at Mercury - its elevation map resolution changes dramatically from the north pole to the equator (the south hemisphere have no data at all).
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| Karakurt | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 20:02 | Message # 981 |
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Space Tourist
Group: Users
France
Messages: 20
Status: Offline
| Oh ok good to know.
Quote FastFourierTransform ( ) You mean higher no?
Yes.
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| FastFourierTransform | Date: Tuesday, 16.12.2014, 23:24 | Message # 982 |
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Pioneer
Group: Local Moderators
Spain
Messages: 542
Status: Offline
| Quote SpaceEngineer ( ) Because real LRO resolution is near 64k. On the better res maps individual lidar scans become visible. They used some interpolation between scans, resulting in banding artifacts (resolution along the scan is pretty, few meters I think, but a distance between neighbouring scans is nearly 100 meters). Look at Mercury - its elevation map resolution changes dramatically from the north pole to the equator (the south hemisphere have no data at all).
Ok, I understand now. But I have new questions and suggestions. Let's see if I understanded :You are trying to implement high resolution global products of LRO, where the maximum resolution avaiable for all the surface of the moon are with a resolution of 1024 pixels per degree (I couldn't find those maps, only a maximum of 256 px/degree global map and a 128 px/degree global elevation map), what I see in the images seems to me like a lower resolution than those 1024 px/degree, am i correct?
The other issue is for what Narrow Angle Camera of LRO informs. Let's say that in general we have a lunar global map with a resolution of 100 meters per pixel. That could be a global base map, but NAC takes pictures of a resolution of 0,5 meters per pixel, so my questions are:
- Is LRO going to map all the surface of the moon at 0,5 px/m resolution one day? When?
- Are the regions mapped with that resolution going to be added to Space Engine's base map?
Maybe we can develope an algorithm to make the transition from the Wide angle camera resolution to that of the NAC images so that the appearence of the moon get's realistic, without seen those patchy photos overlap noticiably over the global base map and adding spectacular resolution to certain regions (that are quite a lot by now as far as I saw).
That would be trully awesome. LRO has incredibly accurate elevation measurements that when syncronized with the NAC images can provide us with high resolution models of regions of the moon. For example, watch the model for Giordano Bruno impact crater on the far side of the moon (a 22km impact crater):
It's awesome to see that kind of detail. It feels as if we where there. I can't wait to experience Oculus Rift in a model like that. Maybe in a future release we would have this kind of detail (with improvements on the system philosophy and memory storage and usage).
I'm one of those guys that would give his life to witness a martian landscape so I can't wait to see extremely high resolution textures from HiRise instrument on MRO been added also to Space Engine. The HiRise data products are of more brutal resolution and would be a totally worth it experience in Space Engine. The Digital Terrain Models created by MRO have an error in elevation maps of the order od tens of centimeters and the resolution of HiRise camera is around 0,25 meters per pixel (doubling the resolution of maximum resolution LRO maps).
One guy has taken some of the data to make amazing flyover videos of some of the images (all with 1 meter elevation resolution and 0,25 meters per pixel imaging resolution). The result is one of the most exciting things I have seen in planetary science. The spectacular level of detail inspires me. This realism should be archived one day in Space Engine. This are a few videos as sample of what could be done:
Mount Sharp edges in the interior of Gale Crater:
A 200 meter high dune with evidence of a sand avalanche
This are the surroundings of Athabasca Vallis
This is inside a region of Valles Marineris called Candor Chasma that shows incredible peaks
The issue of artifacts made by strange interpolations, bad data or little surveyed one could be handle one day making those interpolation patches generate procedural terrain obeing restrictions made by the enviroment and boundary of the data. But this part would have to wait a lot I think 
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Wednesday, 17.12.2014, 16:01 | Message # 983 |
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Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| I made myself a lava map for Io. It is some sort of "art" texture, because no real lava map exist. I just take a color map, select volcanoes in it (they are black) and give them a red tint. Then 2+ hours of work in Photoshop to delete unwanted lava fields. First version has too many and too large lava lakes (entire calderas was flooded with lava), so I repeated the work with more strong black color selection (but I leave a large volcano with lava flows from the first version). Not it look relatively good.
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| Billy_Mayes | Date: Wednesday, 17.12.2014, 17:33 | Message # 984 |
 Pioneer
Group: Users
Finland
Messages: 485
Status: Offline
| Now that looks really cool. 
Keep up the good work!
AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.2 GHz Quad-Core - AMD Radeon HD 6950 2GB VRAM - 4GB RAM - 1680x1050 75 Hz Samsung screen
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Wednesday, 17.12.2014, 20:34 | Message # 985 |
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Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Venus 128k radar map. Now I working on combining it with a low-res topography map to make a landscape more real.
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| Inarius | Date: Wednesday, 17.12.2014, 21:47 | Message # 986 |
 Explorer
Group: Local Moderators
France
Messages: 237
Status: Offline
| That is very very convincing (even if I never saw any picture of Venus of this type).
I suppose (and hope you will say no!) that randomly generated planets won't benefit from these new features ?
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Thursday, 18.12.2014, 00:04 | Message # 987 |
 Cosmic Curator
Group: Administrators
United States
Messages: 8717
Status: Offline
| Quote Inarius ( ) I suppose (and hope you will say no!) that randomly generated planets won't benefit from these new features ?
The things mentioned in the last few posts are not really new "features", just new textures for Sol planets. They have no effect on the rest of the universe.
All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
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| Destructor1701 | Date: Thursday, 18.12.2014, 01:46 | Message # 988 |
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Pioneer
Group: Users
Ireland
Messages: 533
Status: Offline
| Has the bloom shader been altered? Those images of Io and Jupiter (lovely lava, by the way :p) have a really tangible quality to the bloom - it seems more physically accurate or something.
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| Game | Date: Thursday, 18.12.2014, 17:21 | Message # 989 |
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Space Tourist
Group: Users
Netherlands
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| Quote Destructor1701 ( ) Has the bloom shader been altered? Those images of Io and Jupiter (lovely lava, by the way :p) have a really tangible quality to the bloom - it seems more physically accurate or something.
According to the first post, there have been some updates to the HDR and Bloom rendering among other shader updates. That might be what caught your eye. You're right about it looking like an improvement over what we have. It's also noticeable in the picture of the Red Giant a few pages ago.
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| Harbinger_of_Life | Date: Friday, 19.12.2014, 04:09 | Message # 990 |
 Observer
Group: Users
New Zealand
Messages: 15
Status: Offline
| On the topic of lighted sources on planets, will we be seeing bio-luminescence (procedurally) over the next few updates?
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