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Totally off-topic thread
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 08:16 | Message # 736 |
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| Quote (werdnaforever)
I'm sort of waiting for the collapse of capitalism,
Quote (midtskogen) Don't hold your breath.
Technological growth will inevitably change the economy.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Sunday, 17.03.2013, 08:20 |
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| Tim | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 10:30 | Message # 737 |
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| Quote (werdnaforever) agnostic athiest
Huh?
Quote (Wikipedia) Agnosticism is the view that the existence or non-existence of any deity is unknown and possibly unknowable.
Quote (Wikipedia) Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.
I'm not sure how those can go together :P
Quote (DoctorOfSpace) Technological growth will inevitably change the economy.
I am optimistic about that too. Science and technology will bring an answer to many problems in the future. Reproducing of meat, so we won't have to butcher much more animals, genetical manipulation of crops, so they would be stronger.
However, these are difficult tasks as we need change now and the technology isn't quite ready. Also, many people still have ethical problems with all that. Some of them I can even understand.
Edited by Tim - Sunday, 17.03.2013, 10:30 |
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| Watsisname | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 11:38 | Message # 738 |
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| People have used the word 'atheism' in so many different ways that linking to one definition and acting like everyone else follows precisely the same one is an invitation to madness. I gave up on trying to use a universal, self-consistent nomenclature for spiritual/theological belief systems ages ago.
One may hold the view that the existence of such entities can't be known by empirical evidence, and simultaneously hold the view that their existence is implausible, therefore not worthy of his or her belief (i.e. not partaking in any religious doctrine). That's more or less my position, and (I'm guessing) it is also more or less what Tim werdnaforever means by 'agnostic atheist' as well.
edit: Named the wrong person.
Edited by Watsisname - Sunday, 17.03.2013, 11:41 |
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| midtskogen | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 12:10 | Message # 739 |
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| Quote (Watsisname) One may hold the view that the existence of such entities can't be known by empirical evidence, and simultaneously hold the view that their existence is implausible, therefore not worthy of his or her belief
It's also possible to hold the view that the existence of a divinity/of a deeper meaning/whatever is plausible and still not care much about it. If there is a meaning to your existence, you can be pretty sure that it isn't to spend your life pondering what it is. Or, if that really is the meaning, that would be so shallow and disappointing that it would be a waste anyway.
NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 13:01 | Message # 740 |
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| Quote (Tim) I'm not sure how those can go together
Rejection of a belief in something does not mean a belief that something is false. Also, agnosticism deals with knowledge, not belief. So they are not mutually exclusive.
To give more clear and technically correct definitions of the terms with regards to deities, agnosticism is someone who does not claim to know whether or not any deities exist; a gnostic would be someone who does claim to know one way or the other. An atheist is someone who does not hold a belief in any deities. That is the full extent of the meaning of 'atheist'. So it is possible to be an atheist and also be religious, if your religion does not have any gods. Of course, in that case you would not primarily identify yourself as an atheist since you do have those religious beliefs that you identify with. People who self-identify as atheists are typically irreligious.
There are a few broad classifications of atheists; there are "implicit atheists" who lack a belief in a deity simply because they have never been exposed to the concept of one - people in this category would be those in isolated cultures with non-theistic religious traditions, and newborn children. However in Western societies everyone has been exposed to the concept of deities so there are no implicit atheists, only "explicit atheists", which as you might guess are people who are familiar with claims about the existence of deities and who do not accept those claims. In this category there are two subcategories (we'll drop the term 'explicit' here since it is understood).
A "weak atheist" is someone who simply does not hold a belief in any deities. People in this category are often labeled by society as "agnostic" and not atheist, though in reality they would be both. A strong atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of deities, and who also believes that deities do not exist. This is the definition that society usually associates with the term "atheist". In reality most atheists do not fall into this category. It is also possible to fall into different categories with concern to different deity claims. For example, someone could be a strong atheist with regards to the Abrahamic god, but a weak atheist with regards to a different or more general incarnation of god.
So aside from a non-acceptance of god-claims, atheists do not necessarily have anything in common. Agnostics may or may not be atheists (though most atheists are agnostics). However, in society these terms often have different denotations. In the USA, the common usage of "agnostic" is roughly synonymous with "weak atheist", while the common usage of "atheist" is synonymous with "strong atheist". Naturally this presents a bit of a problem since most atheists are not strong atheists, so misunderstandings are frequent. I think that an understanding of the more correct definitions of these terms is becoming more common, but most people still don't know them.
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| midtskogen | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 20:45 | Message # 741 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) a gnostic would be someone who does claim to know one way or the other.
Gnosticism usually refers to a specific branch of religious belief, including an early branch of Christianity, so I think your use would be misunderstood.
NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
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| werdnaforever | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 21:00 | Message # 742 |
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| I don't believe in the existence of a deity. I don't believe it's possible to know one way or the other. Beliefs are subjective though, so let's look at this scientifically. There's no scientific evidence that a god exists. (The burden of proof is on believers and people who claim to find evidence, not the other way around. Sorry, believers.)
But enough about that. Last night, I had spaghetti for dinner. And then I thought of a new religion- one where people worship black holes. Why? Because when you approach one, there's no force in the universe that can save you, and you become spaghettified. So black holes are like giant spaghetti monsters! (or at least super-massive ones)
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 21:10 | Message # 743 |
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| Quote (midtskogen) Gnosticism usually refers to a specific branch of religious belief, including an early branch of Christianity, so I think your use would be misunderstood.
I only meant to define it in this context, and I've never seen it used as I defined it without obvious context, so there is little chance of a misunderstanding. I only used it to contrast with agnosticism and provide a more complete understanding of the word.
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Sunday, 17.03.2013, 21:14 | Message # 744 |
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| Quote (werdnaforever) So black holes are like giant spaghetti monsters!
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| Disasterpiece | Date: Monday, 18.03.2013, 01:07 | Message # 745 |
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| Quote (werdnaforever) But enough about that. Last night, I had spaghetti for dinner. And then I thought of a new religion- one where people worship black holes. Why? Because when you approach one, there's no force in the universe that can save you, and you become spaghettified. So black holes are like giant spaghetti monsters! (or at least super-massive ones)
Color me converted!
I play teh spase engien
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| werdnaforever | Date: Monday, 18.03.2013, 07:11 | Message # 746 |
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| Oh, wait, it was flying spaghetti monster, not giant spaghetti monster. Whatever... same thing.
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| apenpaap | Date: Monday, 18.03.2013, 18:07 | Message # 747 |
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| Quote (werdnaforever) Oh, wait, it was flying spaghetti monster, not giant spaghetti monster. Whatever... same thing.
Heresy!
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| werdnaforever | Date: Monday, 18.03.2013, 19:05 | Message # 748 |
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| If you ever look at the flying spaghetti monster with your own eyes, you will meat your maker.
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| Tim | Date: Monday, 18.03.2013, 20:08 | Message # 749 |
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| That is if you have the balls to meat him. 
Edited by Tim - Monday, 18.03.2013, 20:09 |
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| werdnaforever | Date: Tuesday, 19.03.2013, 01:02 | Message # 750 |
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Edited by werdnaforever - Tuesday, 19.03.2013, 01:03 |
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