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Gameplay Concept
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| Mangarian | Date: Monday, 21.07.2014, 16:20 | Message # 61 |
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Observer
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| Your first post list is cool, but what about exo politics?
Maybe include a threat value to an object. neutral is neutral, but let things learn over time.
If a person/player thrashes his/her area, the area learns to take identifying objects as threats.
Kind of a learn as you go, don't force threat levels as static values, but let them be played out as a factor what you make it/treat it.
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| kallas_333 | Date: Tuesday, 09.09.2014, 14:35 | Message # 62 |
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| I've seen that Space Engineer plans to make an MMO out of this awesome god tool of space engine... but wouldn't it be better if it would be a single player game with the option for each player to be able to make his own server or universe? Much like minecradt...
You enter the game in the menu and there is the option
- Single Player
- Multiplayer
And in Single player mode you can create your own universe:
-Name of the universe: Orbis 1 (example)
-Seed for the generator: 947564883983999 (exaple) -Or leave empty for random seed...
-Size of the universe: Option 1- Size of the observable universe
Option 2- Double the size of the observable universe
Option 3- Four times the size... -Alternativley fill in the box with a number from 1 to (say) 100 which would be a surrealistic huge univers... 
If player aims for multiplayer there should be a official server of the game for the main MMO and the option to choose custom servers of other people or create your own server with the options of the single player universe creating tool... 
This would be epic instead of a limited enforced MMO game for everybody even for those who don't enjoy playing online and getting trolled or killed numerous times by more experienced player and more evil players...
Edited by kallas_333 - Tuesday, 09.09.2014, 16:58 |
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| Aerospacefag | Date: Tuesday, 09.09.2014, 18:55 | Message # 63 |
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| Quote kallas_333 (  ) but wouldn't it be better if it would be a single player game with the option for each player to be able to make his own server or universe?
I suppose this will be one of the ways to test beta-version of universe exploration simulator. Well, in more conventional way - current version of Minecraft uses integrated server manager, AFAIK. But that won't be MMO, that would be just Multiplayer, MMO minus "massive" part.
Quote kallas_333 ( ) -Size of the universe
I suppose, the size will be always "maximum" due to how engine really works, there's no problem with that.
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| kallas_333 | Date: Wednesday, 10.09.2014, 10:17 | Message # 64 |
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Observer
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| Quote Aerospacefag ( ) that would be just Multiplayer, MMO minus "massive" part.
It actually would be MMO because of the immense size of the gameplay world... I mean space engine offers to the player the whole obervable universe to explore! 
Now tell me is there ANY what so ever similar in size world of any particular game?
Quote Aerospacefag ( ) I suppose, the size will be always "maximum" due to how engine really works, there's no problem with that.
About the size, if you have seen what i've said that the option 1 is the size of the observable universe? The maximum size IS the size of the observable universe.
I've given this idea for the players to be able to explore even the universe that was not yet explored by telesopes, or by that matter to be able to create a totally random realistic universe instead of the space that can be observet trough advanced telescopes from any one planet at a time... Wouldn't you agree that the universe could be far bigger than the observable part? Added (10.09.2014, 09:17)
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I'm thinking for a more strategy game but with the camera options that the engine has... A bit Spore like...
When you enter the game and choose single player or multiplayer - you generate your universe: Name, Seed, Size, Density of galaxies etc. you enter a galaxy and choose a star. Go to one of its planets, adjust its climate with the editor that the engine has then plant the seed of evolution. Fast forward time a bit and when you have your spacies you start building countries, cities, develop technology, maybe build some underground and underwater cities as well, grow your population and eventually lift off into space with atronauts prepared to build space stations that you could design much like you create your own ships with the engine addon for creating space ships and space stations. Then you build your exploration fleet and colonize the local system. As your civilization evolves more and more you could start building mining cities on the system's planets, floating cities in the atmospheres of the gas giants to extract the necessary gases for nuclear fusion engines and/or power stations. then you start building space cities that orbit the local star... As your population keeps growing you have to start designing ring worlds around the star and consume whole planets to build them. eventually you create your first FTL engine and venture into the galaxy to search for other solar systems suitable for colonization and exploitation. eventually you find procedural generated civilizations that you could be friend or foe and develop a galactic federation or a galactic empire. after you finished with the work in that galaxy (if that ever happens considering the hundred of billions of stars there are) your civilization would want to venture deep into the universe and expand into other galaxies...
These are just some basic ideas... of course that you could create multiple species in the species editor (that this future awesome game should have) and take control over them or just select procedurally generated civilizations and take control over those meanwhile your civilization/civilizations is/are controlled by the AI...
Another thing that would make this game the best game in the world would be for the player to be able to switch from RTS (Real Time Strategy game) to RPG (Role Playing Game) and select one of the billions of people from your civilization and change his/her life into an epic adventurer... and if it were to die then the player should select another citizen just to be more realistic... 
Looking forward to an epic game that would capture millions of people!
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Wednesday, 10.09.2014, 12:33 | Message # 65 |
 Author of Space Engine
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| Quote kallas_333 ( ) Wouldn't you agree that the universe could be far bigger than the observable part?
It is already bigger than the observable part (32 billion light years cube). And because we have a hyperdrive, there no reason to limit the size of the universe by 13.7 billion light years radius.
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| kallas_333 | Date: Thursday, 11.09.2014, 10:14 | Message # 66 |
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Observer
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| SpaceEngineer, Would this future game be a MMO or will it also have an option for singleplayer? Added (11.09.2014, 09:14)
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There should be some colliding galaxies a well. I was exploring he universe in SE for quite a while now and i have yet to se any colliding galaxies... There should be triple and quadruple galaxy mergers much like the quadruple merger that the Spitzer Space Telescope spotted in the galaxy cluster CL0958+4702...
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| GameQB11 | Date: Monday, 06.10.2014, 14:19 | Message # 67 |
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Observer
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| i think it needs SP because a game like this needs time acceleration. Not just for travel, but also to observe orbits and observe your own ship in orbit.
unless there is going to be a way for ships to zip around ludicrously fast at any time, time acceleration will be a needed feature. I dont see why this has to be an MMO. The universe is so big that there shouldnt be much contact anyway. If anything, everyones discoveries and actions should be online- but it doesnt need to be real time for everyone.
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Wednesday, 14.01.2015, 11:30 | Message # 68 |
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Author of Space Engine
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| *This is a translation of my gameplay concept from the Russian forum*
*Added to the OP*
Details
The player starting with a big starship with a certain degree of autonomy. The ship can make interstellar flights to nearby stars (or rather, to the stars whose relative speed is not greater than 50 km/s - more on that below), carries a bunch of probes and 1-2 shuttles to land on the planets, and has a small onboard plant for the production of equipment and modules. During the game, the ship can be upgraded, but up to a certain limit. When a player accumulates enough money, he can buy a better ship, with a greater degree of autonomy and "range" of flight. Some ships have a modular design, i.e. theoretically can be completely reconstructed, some do not allow upgrading (e.g., atmospheric shuttles). A player can have a lot of ships and manage them remotely from the ship or station, where he is today (like in strategy games). Communications are instant regardless of distance.
The center line of the gameplay is research. The ship is equipped with multiple scientific instruments - telescopes, radars, spectrometers, descend probes, etc. To explore the planet, you have to launch several probes into its orbit, and wait a few days of real time while probes will make a lot of turns around the planet and will map the entire surface of it. The longer probed the planet, the more detailed information you will get (eg, elevation map and distribution of minerals). To get detailed information about the surface conditions - temperature, pressure, etc., you must launch several landers, including remotely controlled rovers, or land yourself using the shuttle (if the environment is not too extreme). Probes can be destroyed by high pressure and temperature, acid clouds, etc. The accuracy of the data depends on the equipment available to the probe. It is possible to take samples, including biological, and bring them to the main ship's onboard laboratory for more detailed investigation, or move to the other players or to a planet with NPC scientists.
The main worth are unusual and new discoveries - the planet with extreme conditions, planet with life, planet suitable for colonization, double black holes, etc. The player can give names to stars, planets, geographic features he have discovered, and type descriptions for them. This information is stored on the server and displayed to other players when they come into the system. Through the server, you can search the planets and other objects by any set of parameters, i.e. the ranges of size, weight, distance to the star, etc, like in the Star browser in the current SE version. But in the game, the search will perform only in a database of objects which was studied by players. The player may decide not to add his discovery to the open database system, ie make his discovery private, but then the rights to name the planets will be given to another player if he accidentally discover this system independently.
In addition to research abilities, the ship will have ability to manufacture various stuff using 3D printing and nanoassembly. In particular, good plants can produce the parts of a new plants or a new ship, which then can be assembled by robots. A bunch of various resources are necessary for production - different chemical elements that can be extracted from asteroids, comets and planets using bots or harvesters. The plant can also be built on the planet. In addition to the plant, it is possible to construct various buildings, ranging from the climate station and ending with a full-fledged colony or city. Construction time depends on the amount of work and on the speed of delivery of the resources. For example, a small probe can be made on the ship within 10 minutes, but a colony on the planet is built for many months or years (of real time). Stopping of delivering of some resource suspend the construction.
Colonies are populated by NPC people and can bring certain benefits to the player. For example, cheap or very fast refueling, repair and construction; set crew for expeditions (affects the speed and quality of operation in laboratories and factories). Transportation NPC's to populate the colony from another planet on a passenger ship (including automatic ones) also makes a profit. The quantity and quality of suitable NPC crew members depends on the population of the colony. In dependence on natural conditions and level of development of the civilization on the planet, it may have a small base with two robots or a thousands of cities with a 10 billion population. The most populated planets in the beginning of the game are the Earth and 10-20 its first stellar colonies.
Physics of the spaceflight is the realistic as possible: Newtonian mechanics, gravity, aerodynamics. Main engines are jet, antigravity will not be used in SE universe. The realistic physics yields to the concepts of the specific impulse, the propellant expense rate, orbital maneurs, etc. Therefore, the complexity of any research or resource extraction will be determined by the delta-V quantity - the total changing of the ship's the speed needed to complete the mission. For example, to exit from the Earth's low orbit to the interplanetary flight, you need 3 km/s of the delta-V. For take-off from the surface of Mars to its orbit you need 3.5 km/s (orbital speed) and additional 2 km/s to lift up and exit the atmosphere. To harvest ammonia from that comet, you need 18 km/s and 6 months of time, but to harvest ammonia from this icy moon, you need 45 km/s and just 2 days - the choice is yours. Nearby stars are moving at a speed of 20-30 km/s relative to each other, but there are stars as fast as 100 km/s in solar vicinity. Stars on the other side of the galaxy in general are moving at a speed of 500 km/s relative to the Sun. The hyperdrive allows the fast (several minutes long) flights between stars, but it will save the physical speed of the ship. Therefore, if the maximum delta-V of the ship is just 50 km/s, these fast or distant stars can not be reached (more precisely, you will have not enough fuel to brake your ship near their planets without using air-braking). The amount delta-V is determined by the fuel tanks volume, by the specific impulse of the engines, and by the vehicle's weight (so thin framework constructions are more benefit than heavy shielded hull).
Controls over the ship can vary from hardcore fully manual (in reality it is almost impossible and very risky to control the spacecraft manually) to fully automatic - the player simply selects the target, ask the computer to calculatу the most evvective or most fast course, and launches the autopilot. It also will be an "intermediate" solution - semi-automatic mode, where player will make some actions manually, but with prompt from the computer (like in Orbiter). In some cases, manual control is more convenient (for example, an overview flight over the terrain in the shuttle). During the long automatic flight, player can switch to control another ship factory, colony, take analysis over the data collected by the probes, communicate with another players, etc.
In addition to resources for construction, you need a working body (propellant) for ship's engines. Normally this is a hydrogen, which may be produced or collected in different ways. The easiest way is purchase it at a orbital fuel station near Earth or any advanced colony. But rather good ships can collect it themselves - extract hydrogen from ice of a comets or icy moons using harvesters, or collect from atmospheres of a gas giants with a magnetic air intake. Different methods and different models of the ships could do it at different speed and efficiency. The fastest way is to replace an empty propellant tank with a full one at a fuel station (5 minutes), the longest way is to collect hydrogen from atmosphere of a gas giant (many days). At some point, the player could build their own fuel station with a fleet of automatic harvesters running between the station and gas giant or icy moon, and take profit from other players by allow them to refuel on his station. But in the long expeditions in an unexplored system, you have to carefully monitor the propellant expense rate, to prevent finding yourself with empty tanks without the possibility to return to the civilization.
In such case, you can switch to another ship and bring it to the one which is stuck without fuel, and refuel it. Or you can call the other player to help you. The ship can be damaged or even destroyed, if you pilot it careless. Ship can perform minor repairs by itself, but serious damage may require the assistance of other ships or players (for example, if the ship can not move due to destruction of the engines). If the player's character was in the ship when it was destroyed (for example, by an unsuccessful landing or docking) he dies, and his property (ships, stations, bases) goes "inheritance." This mean what player can create a new character with new name, which will inherit the property of the died one. Also, ships and space station, bases and colonies on the planets can be damaged and destroyed by natural disasters, such as meteor shower or volcano eruption.
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| n0b0dy | Date: Wednesday, 14.01.2015, 12:33 | Message # 69 |
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| Quote SpaceEngineer ( ) *This is a translation of my gameplay concept from the Russian forum*
*Added to the OP*
Details
....
and wait a few days of real time...
For example, a small probe can be made on the ship within 10 minutes, but a colony on the planet is built for many months or years (of real time)
....
Ehhm I understand that time acceleration is impossible for the multiplayer game but what about single player?
Everything else I am 100% with you.
My only concern is the complexity of controlling your civilization. I mean I am not sure if you want to make a spacesim gameplay, an RTS gameplay (like upcoming civilization game) or something in-between.
I think you want to make something in between. Which may turn out to be very difficult in terms of gameplay. Which is ok but some may find it too dificult but others (including me hopefully) will probably find it very interesting and engaging.
Don't get me wrong: A balanced and good gameplay is the most difficult thing in game design: Make it too simple and easy and people will get bored soon - make it too complicated and hard and players may find it too difficult and complain. I wish I knew the recipe in order to help but I am just a low-brainer
Edited by n0b0dy - Wednesday, 14.01.2015, 12:38 |
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| sza-shaman | Date: Saturday, 17.01.2015, 00:12 | Message # 70 |
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Observer
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| Hallo everybody
I love Space engine and i have a simple question. how about my tracks in SE? Music is my hobby( one from many others :P ) Sorry for my english (i can speak polish very well).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6410dufDqn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA1L5d-0Zr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0mKOuIyZU
Edited by sza-shaman - Saturday, 17.01.2015, 02:19 |
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| Idgelios | Date: Friday, 13.02.2015, 08:16 | Message # 71 |
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| Assuming there is going to be a exploration/survival/game mode to space engine I suspect this does beg the question; What of PvE?
Or, Player Vs Environment.
In a massive, procedural universe simulator like space engine I suspect that PvE will be a lot more common than PvP.
So what elements of PvE could space engine have?
The most obvious I see is the hazards of exploring space itself, as the player is in a spaceship that moves incredibly fast very often and when colliding with a planet very fast I imagine my spaceship being annihilated due to how fast I was going. To say the least I imagine that when gravity is implemented (I am not sure how implemented gravity is, if it is I haven't noticed it) getting off a high gravity planet will be much harder than a planet with a radius of 100 km, unless said 1000 km world is made of lead or is a white dwarf. That being said I hope using a gas giant as a gravity sling shot can be done in what gravity simulation is added, imagine the videos that could be made with that.
Black holes would probably be instant death since light can't escape a black hole and a player would be bored being stuck to a black hole for all eternity.
Radiation comes to mind, however I am not sure how CPU intensive adding areas where radiation is higher is, or if there'd be any point in adding such hazard since space itself has lots of cosmic radiation, which means a interstellar spaceship probably can handle the higher levels of radiation near per say Jupiter or even a pulsar star. In the interstellar medium, in areas like globular clusters or galactic cores radiation levels could be hazardous to even spaceships, but like said before the CPU intensiveness of simulating radiation in such vast areas probably would be too taking.
More physical hazards may include heat, for instance even with a high end spaceship going near a A-class star or a super luminous star is going to melt someone's spaceship eventually. Heat in a gas giant or a hot planet being much less dangerous unless you leave the spaceship, presumably.
The pressure deep within a gas giant also would be harmful to a spaceship, same with going very deep underwater in a Oceania (or even a ice world, assuming space engineer adds a means to access sub-glacial seas of an ice world somehow (he did mention procedural mining holes in the Todo list)).
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Now for a secondary, but related suggestion that is on the complex side.
Procedurally generated packs/swarms von neumann probes that appear in some star systems I see as a potential late-development addition as probes can have simple AI and be 'static' in their behavior (and therefore, easier to generate due to being able to only exist when observed by the player). Not to mention by being probes that act on simple tasks and functions and not a civilization, they probably would be easier to program since they don't need to be dynamic. They'd just appear in some star systems doing a single minded task be it mine asteroids or observe a planet for long periods of time.
If more dynamic, they might be tied to the superstructures Space Engineer mentioned in the todo list and their classification even affecting the region of space they exist in. For instance, seeder probes would make multiple worlds in their local region of space have a lot higher chance of having life. However I am unsure of the difficulties of that since while I know that the density of stars can vary (for instance, when making the core of a galaxy) I don't know if the same mechanic used in star generation can apply to the regional effects of von neumann probes.
The behavior of the probes would depend on their orientation/function/set of functions (I.e if they're seeders, berserkers, miners, defenders or surveyors, surveyor-bersekers, seeder-miners and so on). If berserkers, they'd attack players on sight while the other types may only attack if attacked first, or defend a structure/world that is being attacked by the player. Or not defend themselves at all. The operation of the probes would be procedural since given the likelyhood that probes in one galaxy will be have different design choices than probes in another galaxy. For instance if the probes are communal in their operation or highly centralized (if they make a collective choice or have a single probe that makes the choices). Modelling the probes probably could be procedural as well, although I am not sure how hard it is to make procedural models for probes.
Such probes would double as ambiance, however I likely underestimate how difficult probes would be to implement and believe that even if Space Engineer intends to add something like this at some point that it will be years since for the time being I believe that the current priority is to make space engine more dynamic in terms of weather/seasons and such.
Edited by Idgelios - Friday, 13.02.2015, 08:47 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Friday, 13.02.2015, 09:52 | Message # 72 |
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| I merged your thread with the gameplay concept thread since it discusses many things that have been discussed before.
Quote Idgelios ( ) (I am not sure how implemented gravity is, if it is I haven't noticed it
It is when you fly ships. It is still fairly buggy but overall it works.
Quote Idgelios ( ) hat being said I hope using a gas giant as a gravity sling shot can be done in what gravity simulation is added, imagine the videos that could be made with that.
This already works in SE and I have done it many times when using ships as intended and with UFO cheat.
Quote Idgelios ( ) Black holes would probably be instant death since light can't escape a black hole and a player would be bored being stuck to a black hole for all eternity.
I think the current idea is you would fly in and be destroyed and have to respawn. I have thought of a way one could implement hypothetical white holes as a game mechanic for randomly shooting your ship somewhere else in the universe but that probably won't happen.
Quote Idgelios ( ) but like said before the CPU intensiveness of simulating radiation in such vast areas probably would be too taking.
Radiation will be added eventually. However it wouldn't be difficult to fake at all. All you would have to do is create areas that have a trigger to cause harm or damage to player and setup how much damage it does over a certain amount of time. Plenty of games already do this.
Quote Idgelios ( ) More physical hazards may include heat, for instance even with a high end spaceship going near a A-class star or a super luminous star is going to melt someone's spaceship eventually. Heat in a gas giant or a hot planet being much less dangerous unless you leave the spaceship, presumably.
Heat will also be an issue eventually, hence why ships have radiators.
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| Idgelios | Date: Friday, 13.02.2015, 20:54 | Message # 73 |
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| I searched for exploration hazards before along with von neumann probes and didn't find anything, which is why i'm surprised it got the move. Perhaps it's since stuff like radiation or gravity have been mentioned before. However I didn't find much on pressure as a hazard or mechanics for procedural NPC entities like von neumann probes that vary in their behavior/purpose.
The challenge with procedural generation will be the modelling since how does one make it so probes in one galaxy are distinct from probes in another? Will it be like planets where there is set types with many palettes to further variation or is there a way to procedural design many unique shapes for probes with model sets that are consistent across a 'culture' of probes? (For instance, culture A has tetrahedral probe designs while culture B likes their probes more bulbous while culture C likes their probes as giant space cylinders and so on)
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| Nol | Date: Saturday, 14.02.2015, 15:38 | Message # 74 |
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| In other Words, when Space Engine is finsihed, it will be the best Game out there?
"Eins - Hier kommt die Sonne
Zwei - Hier kommt die Sonne
Drei - Sie ist der hellste Stern von allen
Vier - Hier kommt die Sonne"
-Rammstein, Sonne, Mutter, 2001
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| Bambusman | Date: Saturday, 14.02.2015, 21:12 | Message # 75 |
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| Quote Nol ( ) In other Words, when Space Engine is finsihed, it will be the best Game out there?
I think SpaceEngine will be more than the best game.
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