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Conspiracy Theories
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| werdnaforever | Date: Monday, 31.12.2012, 07:12 | Message # 256 |
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| Perhaps your points are valid... My intention on the other thread wasn't really about getting into a huge discussion about 911. I have no doubt it will continue here, though. It's certainly more plausible than aliens (the real cause of 911). Edit:
Edited by werdnaforever - Monday, 31.12.2012, 07:13 |
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Monday, 31.12.2012, 07:15 | Message # 257 |
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| (werdnaforever) My intention on the other thread wasn't really about getting into a huge discussion about 911. It's a topic worthy of discussion, which is why I moved it here and carried on with it.
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| Aerospacefag | Date: Monday, 31.12.2012, 13:49 | Message # 258 |
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| IMHO, all main "historical facts" about US for the last 100 years are exactly like this. Pearl-harbor, landing on Moon, 911 are all deeply connected to the political course of the state, therefore, surrounded by impenetrable cloud of hearings and conjectures.
Edited by Aerospacefag - Monday, 31.12.2012, 13:50 |
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| jtmedina | Date: Monday, 31.12.2012, 19:31 | Message # 259 |
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| (werdnaforever) ...explosions at the base of the tower... The towers collapsing exactly like a controlled demolition... Wtc building seven... Military training for the same scenario on the same day... Etc.
Hi, Just saw one of your post talking about 9/11. I agree with you that there is something else that happened that day. I'd like to share a link of ae911truth.org It's a good youtube channel good information told by professionals including architects and very qualified people who like you want to get to the bottom of what really happened that day.
My Personal opinion. These forums are great just because of Vladimir's incredible work. But for everything else specially about the conspiracy forum, you are just wasting your time and energy, because you are gonna hit a wall of deniers and one who will basically reply to your arguments with only theories and the official story which for anyone well informed is just misleading and falsified and they-he will discredit every single word without giving any consistent proof that your argument is wrong.
So my piece of advice. Don't waste your energy with people who are not as open minded as you are and are not willing to see beyond the official story.
Happy new year :-) Medina.
Edited by jtmedina - Monday, 31.12.2012, 19:33 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Monday, 31.12.2012, 20:26 | Message # 260 |
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| (jtmedina) because you are gonna hit a wall of deniers and one who will basically reply to your arguments with only theories and the official story (jtmedina) which for anyone well informed is just misleading and falsified and they-he will discredit every single word without giving any consistent proof that your argument is wrong.
I guess thats an indirect way of calling people idiots.
(jtmedina) Don't waste your energy with people who are not as open minded as you are and are not willing to see beyond the official story.
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Monday, 31.12.2012, 23:14 | Message # 261 |
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| Quote jtmedina a wall of deniers Don't confuse "skepticism" with "denial"
Quote jtmedina discredit every single word without giving any consistent proof that your argument is wrong. No one here has done anything of that sort yet.
Quote jtmedina not as open minded as you are and are not willing to see beyond the official story. I can't speak for every member of this forum, of course, but I personally am not a closed-minded person and I am a dedicated skeptic and adhere to principles of scientific philosophy. For me, no answers are truly "final", and I am always willing to accept that an alternative conclusion may be correct. That said, I tend to go with whichever conclusion is best supported by the most credible evidence. If someone wants to convince me of a factual matter, that is how they have to do it.
The importance of having a both open and skeptical mind can be summed up thusly:
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| Watsisname | Date: Tuesday, 01.01.2013, 09:21 | Message # 262 |
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| (jtmedina) My Personal opinion. These forums are great just because of Vladimir's incredible work. But for everything else specially about the conspiracy forum, you are just wasting your time and energy, because you are gonna hit a wall of deniers and one who will basically reply to your arguments with only theories and the official story which for anyone well informed is just misleading and falsified and they-he will discredit every single word without giving any consistent proof that your argument is wrong.
I gather that you're rather convinced that the 'official story' is incorrect. That's all fine and well, but if you wish to convince other people of it then there's two things I'd like to point out: 1) Not everyone who agrees with the official story is closed-minded, uninformed, or an idiot. 2) A large number of people on this forum are critical thinkers, and believe that the final arbiter of any claim is evidence.
By the way, regarding your phrase 'only theories', I must say I find it a curious choice of words. Usually I see people say that kind of thing when they are dismissive of a widely-held explanation, such as when creationists are referring to topics in geology, evolution, astronomy, etc. "It's only a theory!" But what do you call the proposition that 9/11 was an inside job? Isn't that also 'only a theory'? How are you defining the word theory there?
In scientific terms, a theory is an explanation or model of observed phenomenon which: 1) is based on empirical evidence and logical reasoning. 2) is testable, has been tested rigorously, and is supported by those tests 3) is potentially falsifiable
If it has not been rigorously tested, then it is considered a hypothesis, which is still very important but not yet considered valid. Many hypotheses turn out to be wrong, some turn out correct.
If the claim that 9/11 was an inside job at least meets the criteria of hypothesis, then I'd be absolutely interested in learning more. Personally I believe I am reasonably open minded and a critical thinker. I can be convinced of anything, regardless of how crazy it is, if there is sufficient evidence to support it. Of course, the more crazy it is, the more powerful the evidence needs to be. As an example, relativity is pretty freaking crazy, but I am convinced the theory is correct because it has been extremely thoroughly supported by experiment.
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| Antza2 | Date: Friday, 04.01.2013, 10:35 | Message # 263 |
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| Hello JohnMcJeferson, welcome to the forum. Please remember to read the forum rules.
There is already a conspiracy thread.
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Wednesday, 09.01.2013, 00:13 | Message # 264 |
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Edit Alex Jones never fails to ramp it up with his conspiracy nonsense.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 11:23 |
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| expando | Date: Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 12:29 | Message # 265 |
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| [Moved from another thread]
Quote Since it's harder for life to push up against the surface, it's harder for them to grow larger since it would take much more energy to move around against the high gravity.
If humans evolved on a planet with high gravity, we would be shorter. Low gravity would be much less restrictive, and humans could grow taller.
In the movie, the creatures are GIGANTIC! It would take gargantuan amounts of energy just to move around slowly. On a home planet with low gravity, they'd be doing just fine, and would be collapsing under their own weight as they arrived. We'd have no problem blowing them to bits.
I believe that is what happened to the Dinosaurs, the earth expanded and the increase in gravity caused the larger dinosaurs to die out. Neutrinos from the sun interact with the hydrogen plasma core of the earth creating new simple and low elemental material (such as water), over time the pressure builds up and the earth suddenly expands (and violently). Most people believe the core of the earth is filled with iron and denser materials, this is not the case, the core of the earth is filled with the lightest elements, but under great pressure. This is logical to assume because at the center of the earth, there is no gravity, gravity tempers off half way through the earth's mass. The hydrogen core of the earth captures passing neutrinos and converts them into mass
Please read http://www.dinox.org/ and other websites relating to expanding earth theory.
Also view James Maxwell's 2005 expanding earth presentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePyU7cyMT_k
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true - by the wise as false - and by the rulers as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Edited by expando - Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 12:46 |
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| Antza2 | Date: Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 12:54 | Message # 266 |
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| Quote (expando) I believe that is what happened to the Dinosaurs, the earth expanded and the increase in gravity caused the larger dinosaurs to die out. Neutrinos from the sun interact with the hydrogen plasma core of the earth creating new simple and low elemental material (such as water), over time the pressure builds up and the earth suddenly expands (and violently). Most people believe the core of the earth is filled with iron and denser materials, this is not the case, the core of the earth is filled with the lightest elements, but under great pressure. This is logical to assume because at the center of the earth, there is no gravity, gravity tempers off half way through the earth's mass. The hydrogen core of the earth captures passing neutrinos and converts them into mass
No offence, but that is almost as ridiculous as the hollow earth theory. If you have any knowledge on how physics and geology work, you know that this is not possible. You can test this bu placing liquids of different densities in a jar. The heaviest liquids always settle under the lighter ones.
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 13:08 | Message # 267 |
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| Quote (expando) this is not the case, the core of the earth is filled with the lightest elements, but under great pressure.
I'm sorry but what?
This is the biggest load of nonsense I have read in quite some time. Physical evidence contradicts any such notions.
Rather than type this all out I'll use wikipedia article on it and you can check the sources.
Quote Core Main articles: inner core and outer core
The average density of Earth is 5,515 kg/m3. Since the average density of surface material is only around 3,000 kg/m3, we must conclude that denser materials exist within Earth's core. Further evidence for the high density core comes from the study of seismology.
Seismic measurements show that the core is divided into two parts, a solid inner core with a radius of ~1,220 km[2] and a liquid outer core extending beyond it to a radius of ~3,400 km. The solid inner core was discovered in 1936 by Inge Lehmann and is generally believed to be composed primarily of iron and some nickel. In early stages of Earth's formation about 4.5 billion (4.5×109) years ago, melting would have caused denser substances to sink toward the center in a process called planetary differentiation (see also the iron catastrophe), while less-dense materials would have migrated to the crust. The core is thus believed to largely be composed of iron (80%), along with nickel and one or more light elements, whereas other dense elements, such as lead and uranium, either are too rare to be significant or tend to bind to lighter elements and thus remain in the crust (see felsic materials). Some have argued that the inner core may be in the form of a single iron crystal.[3][4]
Under laboratory conditions a sample of iron nickel alloy was subjected to the corelike pressures by gripping it in a vise between 2 diamond tips, and then heating to approximately 4000 K. The sample was observed with x-rays, and strongly supported the theory that the earth's inner core was made of giant crystals running north to south.[5][6]
The liquid outer core surrounds the inner core and is believed to be composed of iron mixed with nickel and trace amounts of lighter elements.
Recent speculation suggests that the innermost part of the core is enriched in gold, platinum and other siderophile elements.[7]
The matter that comprises Earth is connected in fundamental ways to matter of certain chondrite meteorites, and to matter of outer portion of the Sun.[8][9] There is good reason to believe that Earth is, in the main, like a chondrite meteorite. Beginning as early as 1940, scientists, including Francis Birch, built geophysics upon the premise that Earth is like ordinary chondrites, the most common type of meteorite observed impacting Earth, while totally ignoring another, albeit less abundant type, called enstatite chondrites. The principal difference between the two meteorite types is that enstatite chondrites formed under circumstances of extremely limited available oxygen, leading to certain normally oxyphile elements existing either partially or wholly in the alloy portion that corresponds to the core of Earth.
Dynamo theory suggests that convection in the outer core, combined with the Coriolis effect, gives rise to Earth's magnetic field. The solid inner core is too hot to hold a permanent magnetic field (see Curie temperature) but probably acts to stabilize the magnetic field generated by the liquid outer core. The average magnetic field strength in the Earth's outer core is estimated to be 25 Gauss, 50 times stronger than the magnetic field at the surface.[10][11]
Recent evidence has suggested that the inner core of Earth may rotate slightly faster than the rest of the planet.[12] In August 2005 a team of geophysicists announced in the journal Science that, according to their estimates, Earth's inner core rotates approximately 0.3 to 0.5 degrees per year relative to the rotation of the surface.[13][14]
The current scientific explanation for the Earth's temperature gradient is a combination of heat left over from the planet's initial formation, decay of radioactive elements, and freezing of the inner core. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
That hypothesis is complete fantasy and based on nothing more than a fantasy. Plus if the core were lighter materials there would be no magnetic field, no magnetic field means no protection from solar storms, atmosphere would be stripped away, no more life, and Earth would end up looking a lot like Mars.
The core would have to be some sort of Metal or metal composite, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about it.Quote (HarbingerDawn) Having lighter materials in their cores has nothing to do with their mass or pressure. This is due to the outer Solar system being much more deficient in heavier elements, so there are primarily only lighter elements to work with. Also, due to their mass they can hold a much higher proportion of gases (in the astronomical sense) than smaller worlds, giving them an even greater proportion of light elements to heavy ones. However the densest materials would still collect at their centers.
Expanding Earth is no more valid than young Earth, flat Earth, hollow Earth.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 14:45 |
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| werdnaforever | Date: Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 13:53 | Message # 268 |
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) The only planets with enough mass and pressure to have primarily lighter materials in their cores are the Gas giants and even they still have rocky central cores.
I thought some had diamond cores, due to the extreme pressure.
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| apenpaap | Date: Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 14:16 | Message # 269 |
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| Quote (expando) the earth expanded and the increase in gravity caused the larger dinosaurs to die out.
A larger Earth would decrease the gravity, not increase it. The force of gravity is divided by the square of the distance to its origin, which means if you get twice as far away from the Earth's core (provided you're above ground in both situations) gravity decreases four times. Hence why Saturn, despite its gigantic mass, barely has higher surface gravity than Earth: it's a very diffuse planet, which places its surface very far away from the core, while Earth is dense. Unless Earth's mass also magically increased (which would require a far more powerful wizard than the one who was just increasing its volume, since it's breaking even more serious laws of nature), expanding Earth would have a decreasing surface gravity.
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Wednesday, 23.01.2013, 14:39 | Message # 270 |
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| I moved this to the Conspiracy Theory (and other fringe stuff) thread since it has nothing at all to do with video games.
Quote expando the earth expanded and the increase in gravity caused the larger dinosaurs to die out If the Earth expanded, the gravity would decrease, not increase. If you're referring to forces caused by a rapid and violent expansion, then those would be different, and would still ultimately be overshadowed by the ensuing seismic forces from such a catastrophic event. Also, if the Earth expanded then there would be massive, obvious, and unmistakable geological evidence (which there isn't).
Quote expando Most people believe the core of the earth is filled with iron and denser materials, this is not the case, the core of the earth is filled with the lightest elements, but under great pressure. Besides the fact that this is in direct opposition to the laws of physics, and every theory of planet formation based on those laws, actual observational evidence strongly contradicts this. We can actually map the interior of the planet and discern the properties of the layers by studying the propagation of seismic waves. From this we know that the core of the planet is very dense.
Quote expando This is logical to assume because at the center of the earth, there is no gravity There is gravity there, and everywhere else in the known universe, there is simply no weight, and this is true only at the exact center. Once you move away from the center, the weight increases and pulls you towards the center, so things are still drawn there. And in any case the interior layers of the Earth are under immense pressure.
Quote expando The hydrogen core of the earth captures passing neutrinos and converts them into mass No natural process could possibly have led to the Earth having a hydrogen core.
Quote DoctorOfSpace The only planets with enough mass and pressure to have primarily lighter materials in their cores are the Gas giants and even they still have rocky central cores. Having lighter materials in their cores has nothing to do with their mass or pressure. This is due to the outer Solar system being much more deficient in heavier elements, so there are primarily only lighter elements to work with. Also, due to their mass they can hold a much higher proportion of gases (in the astronomical sense) than smaller worlds, giving them an even greater proportion of light elements to heavy ones. However the densest materials would still collect at their centers.
Quote werdnaforever I thought some had diamond cores, due to the extreme pressure. Diamond is composed of carbon, a relatively light element. Diamond cores/planets would form only on planets composed largely of carbon.
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