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Totally off-topic thread
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| midtskogen | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:21 | Message # 1036 |
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| Quote (SpaceEngineer) This has no purpose for SE nor other game, because rendering is done on GPU, not CPU. Supporting of 64 bit addressing will just increase RAM available for program.
It would speed up the procedural generation.
NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:22 | Message # 1037 |
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| It wouldn't. Procedural generation of landscape is going on GPU. Only galaxies, stars, and planetary systems are generated on CPU, and multicore CPU is much more better for this than few 64 bit instructions.
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| midtskogen | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:22 | Message # 1038 |
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| Yes, exploiting multicore is of course more efficient, but 64 bits is a completely orthogonal feature. If 64 bit gives you 25% (best case scenario perhaps), a 64 bit quadcore would be like a 32 bit pentacore. One more thing, 64 bit support is (for well written programs) a matter of recompiling (disregarding a possible OS reinstall to test it), while turning existing code into optimally load-balanced multithreaded code might be non-trivial.
What's done on the CPU might not be important. As an engine it may make sense not to offload much to the CPU and leave the CPU relatively free for the game code.
NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
Edited by midtskogen - Friday, 12.04.2013, 13:03 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:22 | Message # 1039 |
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| Quote (SpaceEngineer) This has no purpose for SE nor other game, because rendering is done on GPU, not CPU. Supporting of 64 bit addressing will just increase RAM available for program. But any textures and meshes must be stored in VRAM, so size of VRAM and power of GPU is the most important thing.
If you plan to eventually add physics to the engine then 64 bit support might be a good idea. Not to mention many modern GPUs are increasing VRAM to around 6GBs and higher and its only expected to increase.
Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor
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| werdnaforever | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:22 | Message # 1040 |
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| New 32 bit OSs days are numbered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Microsoft is planning on making next major windows version 64 bit only. Apple, as uninnovative as they are, still isn't afraid of making big changes, and sooner or later they'll drop 32-bit support entirely (and Mac developers will basically be forced to recompile).
And even if it's not the next major windows version, it will still happen soon.
I just see all these 32 bit programs, and the developers say how there's no need to switch to 64 bit, but they'll have to at one point or another if they want people using newer machines to be able to use their software. I understand that they have their reasons, but as I said, 32-bit OSs are in decline. All those developers will eventially be saying how they ended up switching because the latest version of (theOSinquetion) only supports 64 bit programs.
If anyone thinks I'm wrong about this, then talk to me in 5-10 years. The technology industry moves on whether everyone upgrades or not...
Space Engine is still a new program, so the sooner a transition happens the less sudden it has to be. Better now or a couple versions from now than some kind of rushed transition because Windows 9 or 10 won't run 32 bit programs but it's a crazy success and everyone's upgraded, or a scenario like that. I understand that multi-core support is much more important.
Also, imagine running Space Engine, 64 bit, on a pc with 32 terrabytes of ram, with a 1Thz processor. You have 120FPS with a raytracing engine and spaceships and colonies with tens of millions of polygons each and complete interiors. Terrain has pixels down to .1mm, including supergiants. You can mine planets for resources, thereby creating custom terrain in real time, and it all gets loaded into memory every time you come back. That will not happen on a 32 bit os, my friends.
Or Vladimir could rewrite it in 16 bit code for Windows 3.0. Downgrades are the new upgrades, people! SE could run in 256 colors at 640x480 and on 16MB of ram, with a 486 processor. Oh, wait, Seinfeld's on, gotta go end this post to watch it. Also, I've got to check my AOL mail. BTW I can't wait to disprove Y2K to everyone once it happens. EDIT: i mean when it doesn't happen
Edited by werdnaforever - Saturday, 13.04.2013, 01:20 |
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:22 | Message # 1041 |
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| Quote (werdnaforever) Microsoft is planning on making next major windows version 64 bit only
And when might that be? Because they seem to be ~3-5 years between versions...
Quote (werdnaforever) And even if it's not the next major windows version, it will still happen soon.
If it's not the next major Windows release then that means it will take the better part of a decade to happen. That is certainly not my definition of "soon". More like Blizzard's definition of soon.
Quote (werdnaforever) Windows 9 or 10 won't run 32 bit programs
As you are no doubt aware, a 64-bit OS can run a 32-bit app with no problems (as evidenced by the fact that everyone here with a 64-bit OS can run SE). So that does not make any sense. However, they will switch to 64-bit simply because it is the new standard and there will no longer be any reason not to.
All forum users, please read this!
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| midtskogen | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 11:22 | Message # 1042 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) As you are no doubt aware, a 64-bit OS can run a 32-bit app with no problems (as evidenced by the fact that everyone here with a 64-bit OS can run SE). So that does not make any sense.
Depends on what is meant by "wont run 32 bit programs". A program is either entirely 32 bit or entirely 64 bit, both executable and whatever libraries it uses. It's not unthinkable that a future 64 bit OS wont include an extra set of 32 bit dynamic libraries, a dual set is surely a pain to maintain, and then a lot of software wont run anymore, but the OS should still run 32 bit programs if they're completely self contained, i.e. statically linked. EDIT: Or come with all dynamic libraries, even those normally provided by the OS.
NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
Edited by midtskogen - Saturday, 13.04.2013, 07:47 |
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| Spyro | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 14:15 | Message # 1043 |
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| ˙ǝʞoɹq pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ʎɯ
I'm back, but am I here to stay? Hopefully!
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| werdnaforever | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 18:28 | Message # 1044 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) As you are no doubt aware, a 64-bit OS can run a 32-bit app with no problems (as evidenced by the fact that everyone here with a 64-bit OS can run SE). So that does not make any sense. However, they will switch to 64-bit simply because it is the new standard and there will no longer be any reason not to.
The reason they will is
Quote (midtskogen) It's not unthinkable that a future 64 bit OS wont include an extra set of 32 bit dynamic libraries, a dual set is surely a pain to maintain,
This is probably the real reason Microsoft probably wants to go full 64 bit soon. Right now we have WOW64 (windows32-on-windows64) (or Wow!!!! 64!, as I like to think of it). As they develop each new version of windows, they have to make sure that WOW64 runs perfectly if they're going to include it, otherwise it would be unprofessional and impractical.
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 18:35 | Message # 1045 |
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Cosmic Curator
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| Quote (werdnaforever) runs perfectly
lol you realize you're talking about Windows here
Also,
Quote (midtskogen) the OS should still run 32 bit programs if they're completely self contained, i.e. statically linked. Or come with all dynamic libraries, even those normally provided by the OS.
All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
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| Disasterpiece | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 19:47 | Message # 1046 |
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) I am a talented artist
A humble one too.
I play teh spase engien
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 21:18 | Message # 1047 |
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Galaxy Architect
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| Page stretcher
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| midtskogen | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 21:32 | Message # 1048 |
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Star Engineer
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Norway
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| An interesting use of Street View:
NIL DIFFICILE VOLENTI
Edited by midtskogen - Saturday, 13.04.2013, 21:33 |
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 21:43 | Message # 1049 |
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Cosmic Curator
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| Quote (midtskogen) An interesting use of Street View:
Awesome! Whoever thought of that deserves a free year's supply of cookies or something.
All forum users, please read this!
My SE mods and addons
Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, GTX 970 3584 MB VRAM
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| Disasterpiece | Date: Saturday, 13.04.2013, 22:02 | Message # 1050 |
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World Builder
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) Awesome! Whoever thought of that deserves a free year's supply of cookies or something
Let's pretend I did. Pay up.
I play teh spase engien
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