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Canyon Worlds
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| Robbie | Date: Thursday, 18.08.2011, 18:45 | Message # 1 |
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| This is something I would like to see implemented in SE: Canyons, that cover whole moons or planets, scorched by nearby stars, and perhaps with rivers of lava running deep within the canyons. Something like this perhaps:
Forgive my poor artistic attempt at making a planet, but it's the best I could do to try and show what I mean 
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Friday, 19.08.2011, 12:00 | Message # 2 |
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| I'm not sure if such landscape is possible on a planetary scale. I don't know of any physical process that can do it. Canyons and cracks at the "usual" 100-1000 km scale if of course possible. I plan to experiment with it in the near future. But note that your last picture shows water and wind erosion that's almost impossible to implement on procedural planets.
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| Robbie | Date: Friday, 19.08.2011, 12:50 | Message # 3 |
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| Those canyon photos were just to give an idea of the width to depth ratio that I was hoping could be done in your engine.
The game Pioneer has procedural planets with canyons. This video I've time-stamped here and this other video here shows what they have done.
The first video better explains my idea, as it has a smooth surface but with a 'cracked' look, so the canyons would be running below 'ground' level, so to speak.
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| JHill | Date: Friday, 19.08.2011, 13:55 | Message # 4 |
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| Quote (SpaceEngineer) I not shure if such landscape is possible on planetary scale. I don't know physical process that can do it.
On a high mass planet, a sudden catastrophic impact might result in planetary fracture, thus with gravity holding the pieces together
Sed nos soli stantes. Solus stamus unita.
In multis unum surgimus. Sub una resurgemus totidem.
Edited by JHill - Friday, 19.08.2011, 14:06 |
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Friday, 19.08.2011, 14:08 | Message # 5 |
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| Robbie, this is a simple function, it can be done easily. But these landscapes are unnatural, or even impossible. In the real world, vertical walls are possible on very small scales at 1 km max. Thermal erosion and gravity will cause sloughing of walls. Look at Grand Canyon on Mars, its "walls" rise up at a 45 degree inclination.
JHill, On high mass planets the sloughing process will be much more intensive. An impact may crack the surface, but the interior of the planet is melted and lava would rise up in the gaps and fill them. Look at the Mars, Mercury, Callisto - they have giant impact traces. Only Mars has a big canyon, but it's related to tectonic activity, not to impact.
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| JHill | Date: Friday, 19.08.2011, 14:16 | Message # 6 |
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| Uranus's moon Miranda has much the same problem, though it is probably a different matter
Sed nos soli stantes. Solus stamus unita.
In multis unum surgimus. Sub una resurgemus totidem.
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| Robbie | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:10 | Message # 7 |
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| I took this lava world picture from the EarthSim procedural simulator program:
So will SE -besides its realism- entertain a certain believability to include speculation on what procedural worlds would look like? SE could have them exist, even though they are outside of our current understanding of the 'known' universe. You state it's impossible to have such worlds, whereas I think it's improbable. These planets have the potential to exist - just not at this juncture in our current scientific understanding. Our knowledge on the universe is expanding all the time, so these hypothetical planets may well exist in the future. SE should have these worlds based upon the probability of them being discovered in the future. Look at the speculation on the recently discovered exoplanet Kepler 10b that shows us the potential existence of these canyons.
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Added (31.08.2011, 11:27)
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Update: Found this wonderful artist impression on the exoplanet Kepler 10b. Thought I would add it here to give further inspiration on hopefully implementing canyon worlds in SpaceEngine in the near future:
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| Rodrigo | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:10 | Message # 8 |
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| I think that canyons can be emulated pretty well with subtraction fractal parameters..
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| Robbie | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:10 | Message # 9 |
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| Quote (Rodrigo) I think that canyons can be emulated pretty well with subtraction fractal parameters..
Yes, I too understood canyons could be implemented quite easily, but I don't think they would get accepted in SE, because as I understand it, SpaceEngineer wants realism -based on current understanding- in his engine, and not the believability or even the probabilty of such hypothetical worlds existing. In reality they could well exist. Even with our current scientific understanding, with our current technologies, we are still learning about the universe and its mysteries. We are just scraping the surface with our understanding. IMO, canyon worlds with lava rivers are highly probably somewhere in our universe, it would just need the right conditions for it to happen.
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:10 | Message # 10 |
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| I didn't say that I won't implement canyons: Earth, Mars and the Moon have them, so canyons are realistic. I only note that this image is not realistic.
BTW, I've not implement lava yet.
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| Robbie | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:11 | Message # 11 |
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| I agree. It's 'unrealistic' but only if based upon our current understanding. It doesn't make our current knowledge right though. In the future that could all change, and these so-called canyon covered worlds could be discovered in the near future. We're making new discoveries about space all the time. That's my point.
That image you refer to is Earthsim's attempt (which btw, is an education program) to speculate on the process of a new planet forming within a 'young' post-accreted solar system. It does not mean this type of planet will always remain in that particular state (maybe half a billion years or so) before evolution takes it to the next stage, it's just part of the creation process in the history of a planet's life, that's all.
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:11 | Message # 12 |
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| Canyon worlds are already discovered. But they're icy worlds. Look at Europa - it is covered by huge cracks in its icy crust. Liquid "lava" (water) rose up and filled the crack's in its vicinity. -- They shine up brightly in infrared...
But rocky planets? Look at Io. It's much closer to Jupiter and receives more tidal energy. It's covered by cracks and volcanos, but... lava has filled all the old surface features which hides those cracks.
Look at the Moon and Mercury. They have no atmosphere or water, so ancient landscapes are saved against erosional destruction. We can see some tiny cracks on the Moon and Mercury, but the greatest process that formed their surfaces were the huge lava outpouring that formed lunar seas. No cracks are filled with lava as shown in your picture, but subduction of giant crust zones that were flooded by the lava.
But the cracks as shown in your picture may form on a young planet with a thin primordial crust when a giant meteorites impacts the planet, or due even by large scale tectonic activity. Look at Mars, you can find giant Valles Marineris canyon, and beautiful chaotic cracks at Noctis Labirynthus, and canyons near giant impact structures like Argyr etc. But they are not uniformly cracked over the entire surface.
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| Robbie | Date: Sunday, 28.08.2011, 08:11 | Message # 13 |
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| Of course, I see your point, but with regard to your last paragraph, you could still have the Earthsim type planet in SE as well. That planet is undergoing a process of dynamic upheaval. So in effect, you could have planets with un-uniformed canyons with lava rivers running through them. Again look at the recent speculation on exo-planet Kepler 10b, even if you don't have any of the cold sterile planets with canyons then the best alternative would be very hot planets.
Just my 2 cents
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