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Conspiracy Theories
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| jtmedina | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:01 | Message # 121 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) Probably. It would not be the first time in history that such a thing had happened, and it probably won't be the last. Humans are exceptionally fallible creatures.
Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.
Quote (HarbingerDawn) Yes, I did. I looked at your links and I examined every picture closely. Just like I always do. And I reported to you what I saw. An equally valid question would be did you actually read everything I wrote?
No you didn't. You just adapted an extraordinary event to a more ordinary explanation like, it's just a weather balloon or since they were shooting for more than an hour therefore they were shooting at nothing.
Quote (HarbingerDawn) I'm sorry you feel that way. If you're sure that this is the truth, then its arguments should stand on their own merits. I think I'm being very open about it, but perhaps I'm not. If I am being closed minded, could you please explain to me how I am? I really do care about the truth more than anything, so if there's something that I'm missing then help me out.
Your argument is insulting the people's intelligence. You are basically saying that these people didn't realize that they were shooting at nothing, So why were they using these beam lights pointing at the object?. They just were hallucinating. were the pictures faked?. News papers, testimonies?.
I think you haven't even got minimally informed about what really happened that night.
Why are you treating people like if they were all stupid.
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:05 | Message # 122 |
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| Quote (jtmedina) Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.
The burden of proof is not in saying I don't think there was anything. The burden of proof is for those who say there was/is something, you must provide the evidence.
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| Antza2 | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:07 | Message # 123 |
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| Quote (jtmedina) Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.
If you suggest that there was something then you have to prove that there was something. He doesn't need to disprove it if you can't prove it. This is called the burden of proof and it always rests on the person making a claim.
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| Antza2 | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:07 | Message # 124 |
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| Quote (Antza2) The burden of proof is not in saying I don't think there was anything. The burden of proof is for those who say there was/is something, you must provide the evidence.
Ninja'd 
Edit: Anyway this is starting to sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWsH6GO6PIA (and please don't start a religious argument because of this and if you do then do it in another thread.)
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Edited by Antza2 - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:12 |
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| jtmedina | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:17 | Message # 125 |
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) The burden of proof is not in saying I don't think there was anything. The burden of proof is for those who say there was/is something, you must provide the evidence.
Yes, but by not saying they were shooting at nothing. There is a big difference between, we don't have the head of an alien as proof of alien visitation to It's something we can not explain therefore let's treat these people like if they were idiots.
Because I think no one for sure knows what's really going on, we can't just debunking and discrediting people who have experienced/seen things... for fun. Which is even more disappointing.
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:18 | Message # 126 |
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| Quote (jtmedina) Prove that there was nothing in the air. Prove it if you can.
I never said that there was nothing, I only said that there was probably nothing. I made no claims of certainty. And as DoctorOfSpace says, the burden of proof is on you because you made the claim that there is something there.
Quote (jtmedina) You just adapted an extraordinary event to a more ordinary explanation like, it's just a weather balloon or since they were shooting for more than an hour therefore they were shooting at nothing.
I never said either of those things. I wasn't being serious when I asked if you really read what I wrote, but now I can see that you did not. And how can you say that I did not look at the links you posted? I told you that I did, I gave comments that only would have made sense had I examined the photographs, and you weren't sitting with me at my desk as I did all of this (or didn't as you say). I'm not a liar, please do not call me one.
Quote (DoctorOfSpace) Your argument is insulting the people's intelligence. You are basically saying that these people didn't realize that they were shooting at nothing, So why were they using these beam lights pointing at the object?. They just were hallucinating. were the pictures faked?. News papers, testimonies?.
How is my argument insulting anyone's intelligence? These types of events have been documented throughout military history, accidentally firing at friendly forces, reacting to objects that weren't there or weren't what they appeared to be, etc. This seems to me to be another one of those cases, a very plausible scenario given the circumstances, as I explained. I would not hold anyone to blame if they were shooting at the sky that night, and if I had been there I probably would have been shooting too. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
As for the search lights, it was an anti-aircraft artillery barrage in the 1940s, searchlights were standard procedure.
I never said that the pictures were faked. Again, you would know this if you had read my comments on them.
Quote (jtmedina) I think you haven't even got minimally informed about what really happened that night.
I'll be the first one to admit that I don't know everything that happened that night. All I have said is that the evidence I have reviewed so far does not support the claim that there was an alien spacecraft over Los Angeles during this event.
Quote (jtmedina)
Why are you treating people like if they were all stupid.
In what way am I treating people like they were all stupid? I keep asking you to identify in what way I am being closed-minded about this, and all you can do is make broad generalizations.
EDIT:
You watch The Atheist Experience? You are awesome
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Edited by HarbingerDawn - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:20 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:19 | Message # 127 |
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| Quote (jtmedina) therefore let's treat these people like if they were idiots.
No one is suggesting they were idiots. We are simply supplying an idea that they were doing what any average human would do in the situation.
Quote (jtmedina) we can't just debunking and discrediting people who have experienced/seen things
And no one is doing that.
Quote (HarbingerDawn) You watch The Atheist Experience?
I was about to say the same thing.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:23 |
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| Antza2 | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:33 | Message # 128 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) You watch The Atheist Experience? You are awesome
I indeed watch it. Mainly because i think that Atheism is freeing people from the narrow mindedness of religion and letting them see the world in it's natural glory  (Also Russell and Matt are awesome.)
And please nobody start a religious debate on this thread. If you'd like to discuss religion or atheism please make a new thread and i'll be happy to discuss those matters. 
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:35 | Message # 129 |
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| Quote (Antza2) And please nobody start a religious debate on this thread. If you'd like to discuss religion or atheism please make a new thread and i'll be happy to discuss those matters.
I brought this up a couple pages back when I kept seeing jtmedina bring up not believing in God as a defense mechanism or as a means of defending an argument.
Personally I'd prefer religion not to be brought up at all anywhere, or whether or not someone believes or disbelieves in God. Those discussions never end well.
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| Antza2 | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:37 | Message # 130 |
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) Those discussions never end well.
That is sadly true 
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:45 | Message # 131 |
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) I brought this up a couple pages back when I kept seeing jtmedina bring up not believing in God as a defense mechanism or as a means of defending an argument.
I thought that jtmedina had said that he didn't believe in God, and it was j0KeR that was critical of it? I didn't really know who was saying what so I may be mistaken.
Quote (DoctorOfSpace) Personally I'd prefer religion not to be brought up at all anywhere, or whether or not someone believes or disbelieves in God. Those discussions never end well.
I wish that people had the maturity and open mindset to discuss those subjects in a calm and polite manner, but as two threads have already shown it will not be possible, not even on this forum :/
Quote (DoctorOfSpace) I was about to say the same thing.
Wow, I never thought I'd run into so many other fans You guys have officially made my day better.
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| jtmedina | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:46 | Message # 132 |
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) No one is suggesting they were idiots. We are simply supplying an idea that they were doing what any average human would do in the situation.
What implies that an average human would start shooting more than 14,000 rounds at nothing for more than an hour?. Seriously.
How can you possibly proof they were actually shooting at nothing less than air?. Using their search lights and pointing at that "object".
Years ago it was discovered that the Spanish government was making up explanations of the UFO cases. What they basically did was, they hired scientists to make it look like there was a serious UFO investigation going on. In the end It turned out they were just cheating and inventing the explanations for each case and then they released it to make the appearance like government had disclosure the UFO phenomenon. It happened during the 1990s.
I remember the guy in charge was busted during an interview on an very important news network.
And that happened in Spain so imagine what can happen in a country like the US....Sooo, believe me we will never get to the truth.
Edited by jtmedina - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:48 |
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| Antza2 | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:51 | Message # 133 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) I thought that jtmedina had said that he didn't believe in God, and it was j0KeR that was critical of it? I didn't really know who was saying what so I may be mistaken.
Honestly i didn't understand anything while they were arguing. I think J0Ker needs to (and i don't mean to be offensive.) improve his English. And i really don't mean to be offensive. I probably make a lot of typos too since English is not my native language
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:53 | Message # 134 |
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| Quote (jtmedina) What implies that an average human would start shooting more than 14,000 rounds at nothing for more than an hour. Seriously.
The fact that similar incidents have happened many times throughout history, as I have stated three times now. It is an understandable - even likely - reaction under such circumstances. You are presupposing that humans are infallible, which we all know is not true.
Quote (jtmedina) Years ago it was discovered that the Spanish government was making up explanations of the UFO cases. What they basically did was, they hired scientists to make it look like there was a serious UFO investigation going on. In the end It turned out they were just cheating and inventing the explanations for each case and then they released it to make the appearance like government had disclosure the UFO phenomenon. It happened during the 1990s.
I remember the guy in charge was busted during an interview on an very important news network
I would not be surprised if that's true. Most countries' governments do silly things like that. However, that does not provide evidence for extraterrestrials. The government does not control as much as you think they do. Even if the entire government was part of a conspiracy to cover up UFOs, the truth would still get out. There are simply too many people in the world investigating and looking out for these things. If hard evidence existed, it would turn up, and no government would be able to stop it.
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:55 | Message # 135 |
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| Quote (HarbingerDawn) I thought that jtmedina had said that he didn't believe in God, and it was j0KeR that was critical of it? I didn't really know who was saying what so I may be mistaken.
In response to many of my comments and a few other users I saw him bring up his lack of belief as a defense and then ending in something like this
Quote (jtmedina)
Do you believe in god?. Because I don't.
Quote (jtmedina) That's what you think. For not believing I don't even believe in god.
Quote (jtmedina) Well, we live in a very crazy, insane world specially many fanatic religious people who firmly believe in an invisible god.
Quote (jtmedina) Why should I feel alone for not believing in god?. I don't see any proof of even the slightest evidence of the existence of god.
Multiple posts about it over and over.
Quote (jtmedina) What implies that an average human would start shooting more than 14,000 rounds at nothing for more than an hour?. Seriously.
The military was under stress from the war, they thought there was a UFO in a general direction. One soldier starts firing, another starts, and you end up with a snowball effect of them firing at something that may or may not be there.
Quote (jtmedina) And that happened in Spain so imagine what can happen in a country like the US....Sooo, believe me we will never get to the truth.
There may be no truth. Governments are meant to give the average individual some sort of final statement. If a government doesn't know something then the average person loses trust in their system. To maintain stability and control over a society a government will give a statement, believable or not.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Wednesday, 15.08.2012, 22:56 |
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