|
Civilization on Oceania
|
|
| SpaceEngineer | Date: Saturday, 28.01.2012, 13:29 | Message # 1 |
 Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
|
You remind me of an old idea: What if we had an ocean planet with advanced life? How can intelligence grow in its oceans? They can't use fire, so can't build a human-like civilisation. They can't even colonize the land, because oceania don't have land! But what if they colonize the ice caps? They should quickly develop some technology to protect against the cold. They can build an igloo and collect sea grass to build a fire. But the main trouble is that an Oceania is very poor for mineral resources. There is poor water around, just rare sea organisms that can filter minerals from the water. An advanced civilization can build huge filtering plants, but how about primitive ones? Their civilization can be biotechnology based. But how can they develop the science and go to space? What if they find a meteorite crater on a planetary ice cap with small iron debris scattered around? This may be the greatest discovery in their history. Can they learn how to melt the iron and make instruments?
*
|
| |
| |
| DevonX | Date: Saturday, 28.01.2012, 14:09 | Message # 2 |
 Space Pilot
Group: Users
Norway
Messages: 113
Status: Offline
| SPACE WHALES!!! 
|
| |
| |
| Chris | Date: Saturday, 28.01.2012, 17:09 | Message # 3 |
 Space Tourist
Group: Users
Denmark
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| I like how questions like these are treated in this book.
http://www.xenology.info/Xeno.htm
Core i7 920 @2.67 GHz, AsRock x58 Deluxe, 3x2GB DDR3 1066MHz RAM, GeForce GTX 560 Ti DCII 1024 Mb VRAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
|
| |
| |
| Talisman | Date: Saturday, 28.01.2012, 21:54 | Message # 4 |
 Pioneer
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 409
Status: Offline
| This is very interesting. I can't even make an educated guess as to weather it is even possible for "technological" life to emerge on an ocean planet. Like SpaceEngineer said, they would have to have some sort of surface to even make a fire. They would need appendages so they would most likely be similar to Octopus'. Since flippers and fins have evolved separately many times and it's such an efficient way to maneuver through liquid most animals that live in water on other planets would likely feature this. However I don't think it would be possible for beings with flippers or fins to ever become technologically advanced. They could perhaps still become "advanced" in the sense of intelligence but with out being able to construct computers and use electricity, but I could be wrong. 
|
| |
| |
| SpaceEngineer | Date: Sunday, 29.01.2012, 00:06 | Message # 5 |
|
Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Imagine the creatures that live very deep, under several hundreds kilometers of water, under crushing pressure. If one day they built spaceships, they find that they can withstand huge acceleration, several hundreds of "g". They could even launch ships using Jules Verne's cannon (nuclear explosion in the deep silo)! In SE universe (without antigravity) they will be invincible space warriors! 
*
|
| |
| |
| MrZombieBiscuit | Date: Monday, 16.07.2012, 00:30 | Message # 6 |
 Space Tourist
Group: Users
Brazil
Messages: 33
Status: Offline
| Quote (SpaceEngineer) Imagine the creatures that live very deep, under several hundreds kilometers of water, under crushing pressure. If one day they built spaceships, they find that they can withstand huge acceleration, several hundreds of "g". They could even launch ships using Jules Verne's cannon (nuclear explosion in the deep silo)! In SE universe (without antigravity) they will be invincible space warriors!
Damnit. I knew those dolphins were hiding something from us!
|
| |
| |
| dontpanic | Date: Monday, 16.07.2012, 01:04 | Message # 7 |
 Space Pilot
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 113
Status: Offline
| I think such a civilization would be fundamentally different than ours (if at all possible). For them, the sky would be like space to us. It is hard to imagine an airplane built under water, especially hundreds of kilometers deep. Not to mention the fact that they would need space suits (extremely hard, and filled with water) to even go near the surface.
Also their spaceships would need to be filled with water, so it would be pretty hard to overcome gravity in them.
I remember a strategy game called Sword of the Stars, that has just that, a species of space faring dolphin-like creatures. In that game they are telepathic and live for thousands of years.
|
| |
| |
| Hasforjs97 | Date: Tuesday, 17.07.2012, 00:50 | Message # 8 |
 Space Pilot
Group: Translators
Spain
Messages: 107
Status: Offline
| It would be interesting if there was an intelligent civilization under Europa's surface. I always wanted to visit that moon, and I imagine a starship landing on it, and starting to drill the ice surface, and then a vehicle emerges from the underground ocean
Maybe if Jupiter had had enough mass to become a brown dwarf, if could have provided energy for the life on it's moon Europa...
My desktop:
Pentium G3260 @ 3.30GHz
8.0 GB DDR3
AMD Radeon HD 5570 1GB
|
| |
| |
| dontpanic | Date: Tuesday, 17.07.2012, 17:17 | Message # 9 |
|
Space Pilot
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 113
Status: Offline
| Quote (Hasforjs97) Maybe if Jupiter had had enough mass to become a brown dwarf, if could have provided energy for the life on it's moon Europa...
If Jupiter was indeed a brown dwarf, you probably wouldn't be here to ask that question. It would probably mess up all of the planet orbits in the inner solar system...
|
| |
| |
| Voekoevaka | Date: Tuesday, 17.07.2012, 20:36 | Message # 10 |
 World Builder
Group: SE team
France
Messages: 1016
Status: Offline
| Looking at extremophilcs, I'm among those who think that life, mostly unicellular, can be "common" in the universe, even in the lack of minerals.
But I expect for the civilisations to be extremely rare : if we look at the history of live in our planet, we see that :
2 billion years : unicellular life
1 billion years : undersea life
500 million years : terrestrial life
~10 million years : hominids
~10000 years : man civilisation
So, today, the civilisation time represents a negligible part of the total time of the life history on earth. This ratio can increase if humanity survive a very (very) long time.
In the case of oceanias, I think that a subsea technology is possible, but it could be incredibly rare. On the other side, intelligence is widely possible : look at the dolphins and the killer whales...
Want some music of mine ? Please go here !
|
| |
| |
| apenpaap | Date: Tuesday, 17.07.2012, 20:38 | Message # 11 |
 World Builder
Group: Users
Antarctica
Messages: 1063
Status: Offline
| I think Mercury, Venus and Earth could probably still remain in orbit of the Sun if Jupiter was a brown dwarf, though Mars and the asteroids would be in trouble, as would Saturn and Uranus. From models I've read about, planets in a binary system are possible as long as their semimajor axis is either smaller than three times as small as the distance between the stars or larger than three times as big. Since Jupiter is five times further away from the Sun than Earth, Earth could probably remain in Sun orbit. Provided Mars, Saturn, and Uranus being bowled around wildly doesn't completely disturb it, of course.
I occasionally stream at http://www.twitch.tv/magistermystax. Sometimes SE, sometimes other games.
|
| |
| |
| dontpanic | Date: Tuesday, 17.07.2012, 21:59 | Message # 12 |
|
Space Pilot
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 113
Status: Offline
| Quote (apenpaap) I think Mercury, Venus and Earth could probably still remain in orbit of the Sun if Jupiter was a brown dwarf, though Mars and the asteroids would be in trouble, as would Saturn and Uranus. From models I've read about, planets in a binary system are possible as long as their semimajor axis is either smaller than three times as small as the distance between the stars or larger than three times as big. Since Jupiter is five times further away from the Sun than Earth, Earth could probably remain in Sun orbit. Provided Mars, Saturn, and Uranus being bowled around wildly doesn't completely disturb it, of course.
I've tried that with Universe Sandbox. I changed Jupiter's mass X80 (mass of a brown dwarf) and within a century of the change Mercury was ejected from our solar system, Earth orbital distance became 0.2 AU, Venus was (as far as I could tell) about to be ejected as well (it was very close to the sun), Mars's orbit was just a bit larger than Earth's.
Of course, Universe Sandbox isn't very accurate, still, it is a gravity simulation so I think it is close enough...
|
| |
| |
| BlackArk | Date: Wednesday, 18.07.2012, 00:37 | Message # 13 |
|
Space Pilot
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 137
Status: Offline
| I wonder how will a 1+billion or a 25+ billion civilisation will look like. could they move whole galaxy's :3
Note that 25+ billion year old civilisation could have come form a another univese.
|
| |
| |
| SpaceEngineer | Date: Wednesday, 18.07.2012, 11:19 | Message # 14 |
|
Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Quote (Voekoevaka) So, today, the civilisation time represents a negligible part of the total time of the life history on earth. This ratio can increase if humanity survive a very (very) long time.
Once some planet develops a civilisation, it may never be extinct, and still live and expand through the galaxy. Se there may be a lot of billion-year-old civilisations.
Quote (BlackArk) 25+ billion civilisation
lol the Universe age is just 13.7 billion years
*
|
| |
| |
| BlackArk | Date: Wednesday, 18.07.2012, 12:04 | Message # 15 |
|
Space Pilot
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 137
Status: Offline
| Quote (SpaceEngineer) lol the Universe age is just 13.7 billion years
I know that  what I mean that they are from another possbly Older Universe.
Wormholes they can come form.
Edited by BlackArk - Wednesday, 18.07.2012, 12:05 |
| |
| |
ENG
New site
Russian Federation 
Norway 
Denmark 
United States 
Brazil 
Spain 
France 
Antarctica