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Elements and Colours
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| Hanakofuroshira | Date: Sunday, 10.07.2016, 23:16 | Message # 1 |
 Astronaut
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| One thing I've wondered since atmospheric compositions have been introduced is how they affect the colour of the planetary body. I'm still awaiting planetary composition to see if this changes my observations.
Does the composition of the planet really play a part in the colour of the planets in Space Engine? Or are the colours randomly generated? I tried snooping around in the .cfg files but I couldn't make much sense of the probability parameters. For instance, I found a beautiful pink terra, but its two main components were CO2 at around 80% and O2 at around 17%. CO2 is colourless and O2 is typically blue. The remaining elements were I believe nitrogen and argon, but neither of those are pink. I believe that rubidium, potassium, and hydrogen burn pink, but I don't know about any molecules that are naturally pink. I thought there was a natural salt that was pink, but my chemistry class never reached that chapter.
The atmosphere was a bright shade of sunset pink, and the terra itself was nothing special with typical blue oceans and green grass. The terra was also far enough away to not have a superheated atmosphere like those pink-hued hot Jupiters. I then though this was just an odd bug, but I'd find the occasional planet with these same characteristics. I even noticed that some deserts will have pink and purple sand. Some planets will have pink rings, but are they just superheated from tidal forces?
I noticed all sorts of colours among the spectrum in planets, and I want to know if they are random colours decided by the seed, or if they are actually dependent on the element that make up the planet/atmosphere. I would also like to know what elements are currently implemented into Space Engine.
Fluent in music, math, Solresol, and hopefully someday, astronomy.
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| Hanakofuroshira | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 01:50 | Message # 2 |
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Astronaut
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| After doing a bit of research on these colours, I have discovered a few things.
To produce these lavish warm hues, there must be a fair amount of cobalt and bromine. Most cobalt compounds produce deep violet and blue colours, while bromine compounds typically lean on the pink and red side of the scale. An example for each:
Cobalt (II) phosphate not only works as violet pigment, but also as a water splitter. Perfectly fitting for a desert environment.
Titanium (III) bromide is a material that reflects mostly red light. I couldn't find much information about these materials, but I sought out any sources I could use.
These societies would be accustomed to heavier elements and probably have the aforementioned elements built into their bodily makeup. It would be like how we need traces of heavier elements, but to a greater degree. It wouldn't be to the point of being cobalt-based. Another thing I researched was heavier compounds.
Deserts and terras with a high density or mass will obviously have a higher elemental composition. Elements like lead and gold would be more abundant. Uranium would most likely be more stable and common. Californium would probably be the edge before elements that are heavier than it would break down, like how uranium is for Earth. This is my own personal speculation and if anyone wants to correct me, go ahead. I don't like knowing the wrong information.
Fluent in music, math, Solresol, and hopefully someday, astronomy.
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| Alek | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 18:48 | Message # 3 |
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| Quote Hanakofuroshira (  ) Uranium would most likely be more stable and common. Californium would probably be the edge before elements that are heavier than it would break down, like how uranium is for Earth. This is my own personal speculation and if anyone wants to correct me, go ahead. I don't like knowing the wrong information.
The elements that decay don't depend on the environment or planet they are on to "decide" whether they decay or not. Wherever you go in the universe Uranium is going to be radioactive and Bismuth will always be the true diving line between "mostly very radioactive elements" and "mostly stable elements" and it will always have a half-life much greater than the universe's current age. Just want to clear that up :D
Also, back to the point of this thread, the way Space Engine uses planetary colors is by choosing a certain range of color from a file based on the planet type and whether there is life, among a few other things if I'm not mistaken but I may be wrong on that. Planetary compositions arent implemented yet--with the color files you could make a blue-purple-pink ground colored planet if you wanted, however this wouldn't be realistic in the slightest. Also, I don't think that atmospheric compositions effect the atmosphere color all the time (though a lot of the time I'll find grayish atmospheres with lots of CO2 or bluish ones with a bit of oxygen) Also, why you found purple sand deserts was because those are planets with life that have that color of life like how ours are green (don't ask me how it ends up purple though)
Living among the stars, I find my way. I grow in strength through knowledge of the space I occupy, until I become the ruler of my own interstellar empire of sorts. Though The world was made for the day, I was made for the night, and thus, the universe itself is within my destiny.
Edited by Alek - Thursday, 21.07.2016, 18:56 |
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| Hanakofuroshira | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 18:56 | Message # 4 |
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Astronaut
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United States
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| Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification!
I thought that elements would decay based on the environment because humans can work with lighter materials just fine, but heavier elements cause our bodies to malfunction. Is there anything more to consider in my research? I also thought that semirecent technological advances allowed us to study heavier, more unstable elements for a longer time.
Or it could be that we simply found more stable allotropes of those elements. Hmm.
Also, thanks for clearing up the colour probability. I figured it worked like that, but I didn't know if it was a hidden cfg.
Well, the more 'exotic' colours could stem from strange plant life that's purple or could even be various pigments. It isn't very realistic as far as we know, but there's a lot we don't know in the cosmos. In addition, it's really good food for thought.
Fluent in music, math, Solresol, and hopefully someday, astronomy.
Edited by Hanakofuroshira - Thursday, 21.07.2016, 19:00 |
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| Alek | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 19:16 | Message # 5 |
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Pioneer
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| No problem
Maybe other species that originated on a larger planet or simply one with more radioactivity present would adapt to it and would be able to handle greater amounts of radiation. Also, on atmosphere colors, these could very well be able to happen but at Earth temperature cobalt is a hard metal--you'd need much higher temperatures for it to be able to be an atmospheric gas, and even at that cobalt isn't that common of an element.
This may just come from the fact that we are steadily being able to make more of it, not that it lasts longer.
Its not really hidden, and I'm not sure if the palletes are image files or text files but I think it's the latter if I'm not mistaken, though I don't use them so I wouldn't know for sure.
Maybe, but odd colors should be very rare as far as pigments, because that type of thing usually takes certain elements reactig into certain compounds and for that to occur on an entire planet's surface would require a lot of some ot-so-common elements sometimes and usually a lot of luck considering the surface area of even the smallest planets where things like this could occur.
Living among the stars, I find my way. I grow in strength through knowledge of the space I occupy, until I become the ruler of my own interstellar empire of sorts. Though The world was made for the day, I was made for the night, and thus, the universe itself is within my destiny.
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| Hanakofuroshira | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 19:28 | Message # 6 |
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Astronaut
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| Oh no, I meant cobalt and bromine as frozen solids. I was thinking cobalt because it typically produces vibrant pigments, not that I was trying to single it out.
I was thinking the same exact thing on how species could potentially adapt to the heavier elements, but I couldn't find the words for it. This would be an explanation for the life present on rather dense planets. Cobalt, lead, and even gold aren't super common on earth, and even less common in the rest of the universe, but dense planets can have a higher percentage of the materials, leading to larger magnetic fields and compounds we wouldn't usually see in nature on Earth.
Fluent in music, math, Solresol, and hopefully someday, astronomy.
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| Alek | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 20:47 | Message # 7 |
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Pioneer
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| Ah, I understand, surface colors...
Yeah, also if a planet got a very large impact when it's young but not still molten (sort of like how Theia did with us) and was able to spray heavier elements into orbits that are just stable enough to let the planet cool, then fall back to the surface instead of forming a moon, there could be lots more heavy elements on the surface, even radioactive ones, that could provide an environment where heavy, uncommon surface elements would be integrated into biology and it would be more resistant to radioactivity. (Maybe with a thicker, more metal-like skin?)
Living among the stars, I find my way. I grow in strength through knowledge of the space I occupy, until I become the ruler of my own interstellar empire of sorts. Though The world was made for the day, I was made for the night, and thus, the universe itself is within my destiny.
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| Hanakofuroshira | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 21:00 | Message # 8 |
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Astronaut
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| I was thinking that these creatures would have thicker organic skin. A metallic skin or shell would attract more radiation (they could even be magnetic or be masters of electric conduction to make efficient tech), but it would make sense if these creatures were born in the heavy slew of metals.
Maybe they would have a heavy metal bodily composition, but keep the organic processes using the same macromolecules as we to in order to still classify as organic life. What even truly classifies as organic life? Just being based on carbon? Or, what if they have a protective nonconductive layer of skin over their metallic innards? That doesn't make much sense from an evolutionary standpoint.
Haha, they're starting to sound like biodroids from how their composition sounds.
Fluent in music, math, Solresol, and hopefully someday, astronomy.
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| Alek | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 22:37 | Message # 9 |
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Pioneer
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| Thick organic skin wouldn't do very well to protect the inner parts of them though, if their base molecules were anything like our DNA, they'd need metal shielding anyway, otherwise that DNA structure would get torn to bits and the species wouldn't continue.
^ this. Organic life (as far as I'm aware) is based on DNA or RNA: this is why all life on earth is considered organic, and also why viruses aren't really considered alive fully.
Having a coating would be good, but it wouldn't have to be nonconductive. We as humans can conduct electricity and doing so doesn't always kill a person, especially if the voltage is low. If nothing else, they could somehow use the environmental radiation as an energy source, like how our plants use the sun's energy. Unlikely of course, but possible.
Living among the stars, I find my way. I grow in strength through knowledge of the space I occupy, until I become the ruler of my own interstellar empire of sorts. Though The world was made for the day, I was made for the night, and thus, the universe itself is within my destiny.
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| Hanakofuroshira | Date: Thursday, 21.07.2016, 22:57 | Message # 10 |
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Astronaut
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 42
Status: Offline
| Using the environment as a source of energy actually wouldn't be terribly farfetched...
This mechanism would be super useful if the species' planet is rather far from its sun. Humans are conductive mostly because of the amount of water in our bodies. These species, if upraised on a desert planet, would be much more conductive to their environment than us humans tp ours. Hmm. If it were a desert, would they find a different solvent than water?
Even on earthlike planets, with the same concept it would still be quite conductive. Though, I'm starting to sound like their bodies are made of copper haha! Perhaps their body plan would essentially be a metallic shell of sorts, but different parts of their body would have differing amounts of different metals. Probably the best metals in this case would be cobalt, tungsten maybe? Maybe copper would even be beneficial to them. The metal would most likely have to be flexble in the form of organic compounds in order to allow conscious movement. Whatever the case, they'd be incredibly hardy and live long.
Now that I'm thinking more into this subject, they would probably need to thrive off of electricity. Maybe to keep their strange innards ticking, like a machine. They could probably have 'fleshy' insides.
Even in a dense environment, simpler elements would probably be fairly common. Carbon has to go somewhere, same with hydrogen and phosphorous and nitrogen and... hmm.
What if there were organic hotspots that produced the base insides of the creature? They would literally grow off of the land, like an animal finding a new shell, or molting a new coat. The other case being that they grow their own shell.
Fluent in music, math, Solresol, and hopefully someday, astronomy.
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