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Using SpaceEngine to create a realistic Spore-like game
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| Googolplexbyte | Date: Monday, 16.07.2012, 13:11 | Message # 1 |
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| For those who don't know spore is a game where you are plopped on a random habitable planet, and you develop a single celled organism into an intelligent race of space-faring creature. The player does this by "evolving" their creature through 5 stages which represent what is basically 5 distinct games;
1. Cell stage - a pacman/snake-like where the player gobble up food on the 2D surface of a body of water/liquid, here your creature goes from a single cell to its first steps on land.
2. Creature stage - The most unique stage, comparable perhaps to a hotkey (MMO)RPG such as WOW. You "evolve"/level up your freshly water-born creature to an intelligent being of your design by doing what animals do.
3. Tribal stage - A tower-defenseXsettler-like protect your tribe, kill/befriend the neighbours. Turning your freshly brained creature from noble savages to civil city-dwellers, spawning a baby civilisation.
4. Civilisation stage - A simplified version of Civilisation, The goal world domination then space travel. Take over the world by war, religion, or trade.
5. Space stage - Get spaceship, upgrade spaceship, dick around in the universe, and maybe create an interplanetary empire.
It was a good game however it was dislike by many for being a very cartoony, unrealistic and silly game (Also DRM). The Space section was general considered the best part (along sid ethe creature stage) and done in SpaceEngine it would be all the better.
It would be amazing to be able to pick any of the procedurally generated planets with life in SpaceEngine and just evolve it up spore style. Current theories predict that single celled life is very common on any rocky planet with water & carbon dioxide, but multi-cellular life is likely very uncommon as the transition is very difficult. So SpaceEngine is justifiably full of living but visibly empty planets. It would be fantastic if a group of people took SpaceEngine and used it to make a Spore-like.
P.S. It'd be nice if there were a Kerbal Space Program-esque stage between the Civ & Space stage.
Edited by Googolplexbyte - Monday, 16.07.2012, 13:12 |
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| anonymousgamer | Date: Monday, 16.07.2012, 15:38 | Message # 2 |
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| Spore in Spaceengine sounds difficult to do. Also, Spore is a bit too unrealistic for something like Spaceengine. But, Kerbal Space Program Spaceengine style.... would... be.... just... bloody.... FANTASTIC
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Monday, 16.07.2012, 16:07 | Message # 3 |
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| Quote (anonymousgamer) Kerbal Space Program Spaceengine style.... would... be.... just... bloody.... FANTASTIC
Until they implement warp drive into KSP that would be terrible. An interstellar trip even on I think its 10,000x time would still take a long time. And lets be honest here, having to take anymore than a couple minutes to get from star 1 to star 2 is not fun for a game.
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| Hasforjs97 | Date: Tuesday, 17.07.2012, 00:21 | Message # 4 |
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| Quote (anonymousgamer) Kerbal Space Program Spaceengine style
I dreamed about this many weeks ago. In my dream I was playing KSP but when I left the planet there started to appear SE planets and I could land on them with the KSP rocket... It was funny 
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| AustinMclEctro | Date: Monday, 07.01.2013, 00:55 | Message # 5 |
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| Well...
(Googolplexbyte) It was a good game however it was dislike by many for being a very cartoony, unrealistic and silly game
Unfortunately, when EA got their grimy hands on the idea, they destroyed it. Will Wright and MAXIS had the correct view on the game, or...simulator, beforehand.
But if it weren't for EA, the game wouldn't have appealed to the younger age group or less science-inclined group of EA's customer base, and Spore would've came out as a cool science/evolution/colonization simulator instead.
Anyone ever watch Will's first big showcase of Spore? Before it was ruined? It was shot at GDC 2005.
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| Jafit | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 01:14 | Message # 6 |
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| It doesn't matter how realistic the game is, people are still going to make dick monsters in the creature editor.
(DoctorOfSpace) Until they implement warp drive into KSP that would be terrible. An interstellar trip even on I think its 10,000x time would still take a long time. And lets be honest here, having to take anymore than a couple minutes to get from star 1 to star 2 is not fun for a game.
The challenge in KSP comes from negotiating orbital mechanics, and the sense of achievement comes when you actually manage to land on the Mün or something. Plus it has the charm and comedy of little green men, and flawed equipment exploding catastrophically.
If KSP wanted to add an interstellar element to the game I'm sure they could do it without having to add the entire galaxy. Add some local stars, and tech like solar sails, or an ion drive, something that would be a challenge to operate.
A warp drive that got you to another star an minutes with no challenge would be awful for KSP
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 01:56 | Message # 7 |
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| (Jafit) something that would be a challenge to operate.
Because a warp drive is easy to operate. No courses need to be planned. You just press a button and jump at FTL speeds and you magically arrive at your location. 
(Jafit) If KSP wanted to add an interstellar element to the game I'm sure they could do it without having to add the entire galaxy. Add some local stars, and tech like solar sails, or an ion drive,
Add the whole galaxy and allow the game to have FTL components. FTL jump mods already exist but with their plans for a tech tree they should develop some mode of FTL travel and add in as much of an entire galaxy as possible.
(Jafit) A warp drive that got you to another star an minutes with no challenge would be awful for KSP
Even in Star Trek it isn't instantaneous jumps from point A to B, it takes days/weeks/months to get to places. All the KSP devs would have to do is make the warp drive upgradeable to allow longer, farther, and faster jumps.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 01:57 |
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 06:15 | Message # 8 |
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| (Jafit) If KSP wanted to add an interstellar element to the game I'm sure they could do it without having to add the entire galaxy.
I think that the way to add another star to visit is to make the KSP system a part of a wide-separation binary. This would make getting to the other planetary system achievable but a great challenge, and would be one of the ultimate evolutions of KSP short of making a hundred other star systems. This idea is also consistent with the patters of design in KSP used so far.
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| Jafit | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 18:53 | Message # 9 |
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| (DoctorOfSpace) Because a warp drive is easy to operate. No courses need to be planned. You just press a button and jump at FTL speeds and you magically arrive at your location.
Add the whole galaxy and allow the game to have FTL components. FTL jump mods already exist but with their plans for a tech tree they should develop some mode of FTL travel and add in as much of an entire galaxy as possible.
Even in Star Trek it isn't instantaneous jumps from point A to B, it takes days/weeks/months to get to places. All the KSP devs would have to do is make the warp drive upgradeable to allow longer, farther, and faster jumps.
I can see you've been dying for an opportunity to use an image macro. I really was not warranted and looks silly.
If I think jumpdrive or warp plotting from a gameplay perspective, the most sensible and intuitive way of doing that would be to have the player go to a map screen, click on their desired target star, and then press the jump button. This is how every game I can think of does interstellar travel, unless they use some kind of jumpgate structures. Elite/Frontier does it, Spore does it, Eve Online does it (for jumpdrive capable ships), Faster Than Light does it, Sins of a Solar Empire does it, Star Ruler does it... I imagine all these games perform interstellar travel in this way because it's intuitive and it works well this way.
The only game that I can think of which deviates slightly from the standard 'click here to jump' mode of interstellar travel is Star Trek Online. In that game you exit each starsystem zone into 'sector space' where a giant representation of your ship can freely fly to different starsystems. You then bump into the starsystem and you get a box saying 'click here to enter Vulcan System' or wherever you are. But even in STO you can still bring up a map and click a starsystem to automatically fly to it. Here a pair of neckbeards explain the whole thing
But no, the assumption that a warp drive would work like it does in every other game is so laughably wrong that it deserves a facepalm image macro. Instead you have a revolutionary idea for a completely new approach to interstellar flight in video games. You have an idea that is fun and engaging, gives the player a challenge and a sense of achievement.
Please explain the specific gameplay elements of your idea for plotting a jump or or plotting a course for warp in such a way that it becomes fun for the player.
Edited by Jafit - Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 18:55 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 21:32 | Message # 10 |
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(Jafit) Please explain the specific gameplay elements of your idea for plotting a jump or or plotting a course for warp in such a way that it becomes fun for the player.
You would do it the same way you fly a rocket. Instead of trajectory changes and burns you would activate your warp drive at whatever velocity you want to go and figure out the trajectory at sublight or FTL speeds in a straight line between where you are and where you are going. Alternatively MechJeb in KSP could do the calculations. Either way you are still in control during the entire FTL flight and all it does is save you time in not having to do 10,000x time. I say a straight line because the warp drive would be pushing you faster than the escape velocity of the system so you would need the end point to be, like in a regular flight, where the planet/star/system would be when you arrive.
It isn't a difficult thing to add into the game and it would add a new flight mechanic. Plus in KSP with IVA there could be some cool effects when looking out the front of the craft.
http://www.vis.uni-stuttgart.de/~muelleta/Warp/
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| Jafit | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 22:43 | Message # 11 |
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| (DoctorOfSpace) You would do it the same way you fly a rocket. Instead of trajectory changes and burns you would activate your warp drive at whatever velocity you want to go and figure out the trajectory at sublight or FTL speeds in a straight line between where you are and where you are going. Alternatively MechJeb in KSP could do the calculations. Either way you are still in control during the entire FTL flight and all it does is save you time in not having to do 10,000x time. I say a straight line because the warp drive would be pushing you faster than the escape velocity of the system so you would need the end point to be, like in a regular flight, where the planet/star/system would be when you arrive.
So your idea for an interesting warp drive mechanic... is point your ship at your target, and turn on your warp drive, leave it on for as long as it needs to take you to your target, and then turn it off.
Edited by Jafit - Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 22:44 |
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| Antza2 | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 22:48 | Message # 12 |
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| (Jafit) So your idea for an interesting warp drive mechanic... is point your ship at your target, and turn on your warp drive, leave it on for as long as it needs to take you to your target, and then turn it off.
And that would not work because.....?
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 22:52 | Message # 13 |
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| (Antza2) And that would not work because.....?
Because apparently an FTL drive has to be overly complicated or a teleport cheat tool
(Jafit) is point your ship at your target
That is not how it would work unless you have a warp drive capable of near instantaneous travel.
(Jafit) turn on your warp drive, leave it on for as long as it needs to take you to your target, and then turn it off.
As how it should be with a warp drive. Warp drive does not have to go at FTL speeds, it can go any speed from a few Km/h to a theorized 10^32c. It all depends on the available energy/negative energy and how long you can sustain the warp bubble. You can easily build a proper FTL mechanic around this for short FTL bursts up to long bursts and eventually near instantaneous travel between stars after you advance far enough and can produce enough negative energy or harness something like dark energy.
I don't see the problem with having an FTL drive if its done in a manner like this.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 23:07 |
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| anonymousgamer | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 23:11 | Message # 14 |
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| Personally, using warp drive would actually be more difficult than using standard thrusters. You would be under the effects of time dilation, your sensors most likely wouldn't work and you can't visually see where you're going. You would also have to take in account energy consumption and the effect of gravitational pull on your predicted path. And, it would still take hours/days real time to reach the destination. As a result, warp drive would not be OP, because it would be a great challenge to use.
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Edited by anonymousgamer - Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 23:12 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Tuesday, 08.01.2013, 23:13 | Message # 15 |
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| (anonymousgamer) You would be under the effects of time dilation
Actually you wouldn't. At warp velocities your time would stay relative to the time on Earth. That means 4 years ship time is 4 years warp time. The ship is not actually moving, only the regions of space around the ship.
(anonymousgamer) You would also have to take in account energy consumption and the effect of gravitational pull on your predicted path
Energy consumption is the big one. Gravity is not a big issue if you are traveling faster than the escape velocity to the system or near by planets, so any high speed sublight or FTL speed would negate that issue.
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