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Spaceship control scheme suggestions
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| Hasforjs97 | Date: Monday, 09.07.2012, 12:23 | Message # 16 |
 Space Pilot
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Spain
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) I picture a bubble of spacetime being made inside/around the ship that keeps it stable and separate from the forces outside.
That's how I understand the Star Trek warp drives: The ship doesnt move across space, but the space around the ship moves across space itself, so the ship moves the zone of space around it, and this way, inside the ship it seems the ship isn't moving.
What I understand as Inertial Dampers is the thing inside the ship that can make this possible, some kind of device that, using huge amounts of energy, can make the space move with the ship instead of the ship move through space.
As I understand, the IDs would be needed for great accelerations or decelerations in order for the crew to survive, but they also could be used to easiliy control a ship in space, like we see in Stargate SG1 with the goa'uld deathgliders, but I don't like the way the ships work in Stargate SG1, so I think the IDs would have to be used only for acc/dec and not for controlling the ship.
So this is the way I would make the ships work in SE:
- When you fly inside a star system, you use realistic phisics.
- When you have to engage the hyperdrive, you first head your ship towards where you want to go (maybe there could be an option to make the ship head a direction, like the "center" option but with the ship, so you could select the star and then face towards it)
- When going to engage, there would be a counter because we assume the hyperdrive consumes a lot of energy, so maybe it takes a few seconds to activate.
- You could also use the hyperdrive for short distances, as we also see in Star Trek, for example if you want to travel from Venus to Neptune or things like that.
I also would want to suggest something for the interface: It would be some kind of indicator for the energy, speed, and other things (most of them implemented yet) but it would be nice to have them in the bottom of the screen.
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Monday, 09.07.2012, 14:15 | Message # 17 |
 Cosmic Curator
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United States
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) If we are still talking warp drives or manipulating spacetime then we don't know HOW to do it. The equations simply say it can be done but would require vasts amounts of energy. Not talking about massive objects or any of that, just strictly from a technological standpoint it is unknown how to do such a thing in a practical manner.
I didn't mean that we know how to manipulate spacetime artificially to use for transportation, I just meant that mechanisms that can affect spacetime in a predictable manner are known to science (for example, gravity). We know of no way of affecting inertia other than to accelerate matter to high speeds, which increases inertia.
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| pebble | Date: Tuesday, 10.07.2012, 16:08 | Message # 18 |
 Astronaut
Group: Users
United States
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| I understand the ships are only implemented in a very crude way...but I like them a lot more than I expected. They have a pleasing hard-SF flavor quite unlike other space games/sims (except for Orbiter, of course).
I'm able to assemble several ships together in orbit around Earth and park them in a close, stable formation, so while the controls are still crude, they're least able to do that. I wouldn't want to try a Hohmann transfer orbit just yet, but someone with more rocket scientist skills might be able to accomplish it.
I can think of lots of new features I'd like with the spacecraft controls and navigation, but I'm sure Space Engineer is way ahead of me, so I'll let him continue his efforts unmolested.
I will note, however, that Kerbal Space Program offers a fine example of simple UI and navigation tools that don't require a PhD to utilize. Just saying!
Edited by pebble - Wednesday, 11.07.2012, 05:21 |
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| DevonX | Date: Tuesday, 10.07.2012, 20:32 | Message # 19 |
 Space Pilot
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Norway
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| What about spliting it up for ships that can fly thought the atmosphere and ships that cant. I'm thinking of ships that cant enter hyperspace and those who can.
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| Hasforjs97 | Date: Wednesday, 11.07.2012, 08:30 | Message # 20 |
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Space Pilot
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Spain
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| Quote (pebble) Kerbal Space Program offers a fine example of simple UI and navigation tools
Yes. I like so much the controls on KSP, because it's realistic but so easy anyway with the 3d orbit map. I suppose something like that will be implemented in SE too, because it would really make orbits and interplanetary navigation much easier. In the other hand, I don't know how much realistic is it, but I suppose in the actual ships they have tools like that, maybe not so simple, but something like that
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| dahunn | Date: Thursday, 13.09.2012, 10:11 | Message # 21 |
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Observer
Group: Users
Netherlands
Messages: 17
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| Will we have orbiter 2010 like controls in the future?
for landing on planet or transition to another planet? or star system.
with some sort of programmable mdf's
or will we see something entirely different?
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| HarbingerDawn | Date: Thursday, 13.09.2012, 10:25 | Message # 22 |
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Cosmic Curator
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United States
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| dahunn, this has already been discussed at length in this thread. Please try to use the search function. A search for "spacecraft controls" would have brought you to this thread.
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| Salvo | Date: Sunday, 16.09.2012, 11:05 | Message # 23 |
 Star Engineer
Group: Local Moderators
Italy
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| Take a look of this game 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SrAMFvOLE&feature=related
The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition.
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(still don't know why everyone is doing this...)
Edited by Salvo - Sunday, 16.09.2012, 11:06 |
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 06:21 | Message # 24 |
 Galaxy Architect
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Pirate
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| While playing I thought of something that would be useful alongside an MFD.
How about when you have a space ship selected you can fly manual like it is now or however it is going to be changed. You can select an object and press G to go and then a menu pops up that gives you the options of setting how long you want the journey to take and whether you want to orbit or just arrive at that object. Maybe a side graph in that menu that lists the average velocity of the journey and the hyper factor required and in more advanced modes maybe it lists the energy consumption.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Saturday, 22.09.2012, 06:21 |
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| Robbie | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 09:15 | Message # 25 |
 Pioneer
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United Kingdom
Messages: 590
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| Interesting idea DoctorOfSpace; using the 'G' key for ship flight.
All it would require is to put the ship in front of the camera (3rd person view) in 'free mode' or 'spacecraft' mode. Quite easy to implement I would think. All it would require is to have a switch to toggle the ship on or off in front of the camera.
This would be great for users who just want some simple flight controls. The ship's flight would be controlled by the camera, this way we could also control its flight with the WASD keys as well. It should also be possible to change 3rd person view of the ship by rotating the camera viewpoint around it, maybe using the shift+right mouse button.
Having ships fly this way would make for some interesting videos to further promote SE.
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 09:24 | Message # 26 |
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Galaxy Architect
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| Quote (Robbie) All it would require is to put the ship in front of the camera (3rd person view) in 'free mode' or 'spacecraft' mode. Quite easy to implement I would think. Al it would require is to have a switch to toggle the ship on or off in front of the camera.
I think combining it with the current flight mode for ships or making it something like "Free ship flight" would work better than stitching it together with free mode.
Quote (Robbie) This would be great for users who just want some simple flight controls. The ships flight would be controlled by the camera, this way we could also control its flight with the WASD keys as well.
Yes but with that combination you would need to hold down the forward key. That has its benefits but still I think a better option would be to have the ship only move forward/backward and rotate/turn and speed adjusted with the mouse wheel. The computer would do all the main calculations and from your perspective the ship would just go.
Edit:
Thought a solution to the holding down W. A double tap or something like ctrl+w to auto set ship forward and if you want to turn it just hold down something like shift+right mouse and if you want to slow down/speed up just use mouse wheel and the ship would auto accelerate or decelerate.
Quote (Robbie) It should be possible to change 3rd person view of the ship by rotating the camera view around it, maybe using the shift+right mouse button.
Yeah that would be very useful. And perhaps a key to center back behind the ship when you want to go back to flying it.
This would really be a great free flight mode.
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Edited by DoctorOfSpace - Saturday, 22.09.2012, 09:34 |
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| Robbie | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 09:46 | Message # 27 |
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Pioneer
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United Kingdom
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| It's good to flesh out other such ideas. Of course SpaceEngineer would obviously know how best to implement these suggestions of ours. All we can do here is give him plenty of food for thought
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| DoctorOfSpace | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 10:17 | Message # 28 |
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Galaxy Architect
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| Quote (Robbie) All we can do here is give him plenty of food for thought
Well isn't that part of the reason the Feedback and Suggestions section exists. 
Quote (Robbie) Of course SpaceEngineer would obviously know how best to implement these suggestions of ours.
I doubt it will be any sort of copy paste idea implementation but perhaps in the end we will get multiple ways of playing and a more polished space exploration experience.
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| neutronium76 | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 10:25 | Message # 29 |
 World Builder
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Greece
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| Quote (DoctorOfSpace) How about when you have a space ship selected you can fly manual like it is now or however it is going to be changed. You can select an object and press G to go and then a menu pops up that gives you the options of setting how long you want the journey to take and whether you want to orbit or just arrive at that object. Maybe a side graph in that menu that lists the average velocity of the journey and the hyper factor required and in more advanced modes maybe it lists the energy consumption.
What if you are in spacegraft mode (button 4) and you are in control of a spacecraft. You bring up the map mode (F1) and select a target object. You could right-click on that object and a number of options pop out: option 1: teleport to select object, option 2: perform a neutonian-style transfer to select object (using auto-burn feature, auto DV calculations, time of ejection calculations: all auto calculated by the program), option 3: hyperdrive transfer: auto calculation of optimal hyperdrive factor, acceleration and decceleration. Depending on the distance, size and type of object, the program could highilight the most convenient option for you to select. For interstellar travels there could be another option for added realsim: Initially a Neutonian ejection burn and departure at 1x-10x time acceleration and then as you get further away from departing planet and its gravitational influence diminishes, a hyperdrive could be engaged. Then it will accelerate up to a predefined speed and also time could be accelerated up to 50% distant from target object. Then time will start to deccelerate, speed also, and back to neutonian flight as you approach your target .
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| Robbie | Date: Saturday, 22.09.2012, 11:56 | Message # 30 |
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Pioneer
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United Kingdom
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| Another thought just crossed my mind: in the 'user.cfg' file are options to adjust movement key accelleration and deceleration and velocity. These are:
MoveKeyAccel
TurnKeyDecel
Velocity presets
So it would be very easy to adjust those parameters for smoother ship control, so we get a very gradual increase/decrease in speed. The ctrl+mouse-wheel controls the incremental velocity presets, so players can set thier own speeds. It's a simple setup, and could make for a nice basic flight control system.
Quote (DoctorOfSpace) Well isn't that part of the reason the Feedback and Suggestions section exists.
I hadn't really given that any thought until you mentioned it, but thanks for the reminder anyway. I don't usually like to 'split hairs with an axe' at this forum, so please forgive my anal reply here: but were you asking me a question or making a statement? (btw, mine's a rhetorical question) 
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