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Role Playing Anyone?
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| gecko1501 | Date: Monday, 12.12.2011, 04:39 | Message # 1 |
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Observer
Group: Users
United States
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| As far as using the engine as a RPG tool, so far I've only been able to figure out using the location book marker as a way to label and find locations I want to set. (renaming planets for a name of a homeworld for an alien race by renaming the bookmark) I would love to actually be able to use the object search window to find a planet that I've actually renamed in the program through the text files. Problem is I have trouble finding out where those specific planets I find are located in the text files. such as planets on the randomly generated stars.
Abilities I wish I had;
The ability to search a specific type of planet (i.e. gas giant, temperate terra with life, binary system, ect. ect) with in a certain range.
The ability to change the name of a planet while the engine is running
The ability to add, remove, and move spaceships (addressed in another thread)
The ability to add notes to a object that can be quickly recovered in the engine for reference
I realize this is probably a completely different idea that was originally thought of for this engine, but while its in this beta stage, I could see some mods being applied that (I imagine) would be very simple to add. I would love to hear ideas from other role players.
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Thursday, 15.12.2011, 19:09 | Message # 2 |
 Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Procedurally generated planets are located nowhere. They are generated on-the-fly. And this is a problem to implement a renaming system - it should be the database where names are stored, that will be queried every time a new system gets generated to find planets that are renamed by users.
Parametric search for planets is a difficult thing too, as long as planets don't exists before they are generated. If you ask SE to search for a certain planet with some parameters at a certain radius, SE should start generating every star system in this radius and compare its planets with your request. It may require minutes or hours depending on the search radius and density of stars. And, last but not least, such a search feature will break the gameplay. Search will work only on a server database, where stored are the systems which were explored by players. A player can search for certain planets in that database, but he cannot ask for a planet that's not previously explored.
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| gecko1501 | Date: Saturday, 17.12.2011, 15:27 | Message # 3 |
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Observer
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 10
Status: Offline
| Hmmm, I understand the answer. What about limiting the search radius? only being able to search for certain objects at certain radius? In a game play sense, I would be able to understand that. You ship is only able to take in so much information at a time any ways. searching for things such as moons and smaller (the hardest part that SE would have trouble with because of the amount) should be very limited in radius. excuse in game play being the ships sensors are not accurate enough beyond a certain radius from the ship (when the real answer is, your computer will cry) but when searching for planets above a certain circumference, which there are a lot less of then moons in most cases, would SE be able to partially generate a system until the player decides to travel to the system? Example being, my players want to query a search for a mid sized terra with life. They lock in the search parameters, and find their max range is (off the wall number) 25 parsecs. seeing as how that should be enough, they hit search. Now SE is only charged with generating 10-30 stars with planets ONLY (no moons, asteroids, ect... yet) the search comes up with (another off the wall number) 4 Terras Possible to hold life. When the players ask about a certain planet in the search if it has moons or not, SE responds with saying the sensors are not accurate enough to define (real reason being SE didn't generate the moons to save time/CPU). So the players decide to travel to one of the systems, at which point SE then generates the remainder of the system and the players can either explore manually, or search again for the moons or asteroids with a radius only large enough to cover the single system they are currently in.
And how about a check box that tells SE to only search for previously generated systems? Not to generate any more during the search? That way SE doesn't have to generate any more and the search radius can be unlimited.
I'm curious if you know exactly what type of gaming I'm referring to by the way. I want to use the engine as a way to track a role playing game campaign. And in case you are still not sure what I mean, games such as Dungeons and Dragons... but not D&D, other games in that genre. Think D&D in space, Less fantasy, and more Sci-Fi. Look up a program called Astrosynthesis if you have the time to see what I'm thinking of as an RPG tool. Astrosynthesis is a program that I plan to use in case I can't figure much more out with your system as a tool. (but will sure as hell keep playing with SE for its intended use) I just really like the fact that SE will never stop generating systems. AND its in the real universe. Astrosynthesis only generates as many stars and planets as you tell it to. so the players end up being locked in a really tiny galaxy essentially.
Astrosynthesis is a program I'm willing to pay money for. and your system is SO close to what I'm looking for, its just missing a few things I wish I could do with it but hasn't been designed for it (understandably because Its not what you envisioned with SE). What I'm asking you is if you would be willing to see the possibility of essentially forking your development only for a short time into two goals. One goal remaining the main one of course, making it an amazing space exploration game. but the second being EXACTLY what you have here but with a few added features that makes using SE as a fictional database so players like me could buy/use for our games. Some of the features I ask I think would be useful in both situations. One being, I think you really need to make a parameter search of some kind. Even if it is searching only previously generated systems. I think people will really want to be able to have that ability. Even now, I find my self wanting to search for a terra moon in a binary system.
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Saturday, 17.12.2011, 18:07 | Message # 4 |
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Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Searching for planets from interstellar distances is impossible with any kind of "sensors". Yes, I know, astronomers have now discovered planets around other stars, but it requires months and years of observations, and these discovered planets tend to be short-period gas giants. In the game, the server database will handle several thousand previously discovered planets, and also every new planet discovered by players. The discovery process is described here (use google to translate).
Quote (gecko1501) And how about a check box that tells SE to only search for previously generated systems? Not to generate any more during the search? That way SE doesn't have to generate any more and the search radius can be unlimited.
This is the local database. I'm not sure whether to implement it.
Quote (gecko1501) I want to use the engine as a way to track a role playing game campaign. And in case you are still not sure what I mean
You're right, I am not sure what RPG gameplay maybe implemented in SE. Can you describe how with an example?
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| gecko1501 | Date: Sunday, 18.12.2011, 09:50 | Message # 5 |
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Observer
Group: Users
United States
Messages: 10
Status: Offline
| Quote You're right, I am not sure what RPG gameplay maybe implemented in SE. Can you describe how with an example?
Well, its a table top Role playing game. A bunch of people sit around a table, one person describes the setting to them, and basically paints the game world with his storytelling. Giving the players situations, scenarios, and problems that they have to solve. Astrosynthesis gives me the ability to rename planets and stars. As well as load notes to each individual object that I can pull up inside the program making the management of the setting easier. And because SE is so beautiful, the players would not have to rely on JUST my words for me to paint the picture. I can explain the world, and point at the TV (my monitor is in my living room =P) and say "there it is, see, they live on that planet which orbits a binary star system. A green nebula rises at night, but only in the summer time. That is why this planet has become known to be such a paradise in this sector. For its sun sets in the west, and the nebula rising in the east." And the players can SEE it, not just imagine it, leaving their imagination focused on other things, and a lot less detail required to give. (HELPS A LOT with story progression) With out the tool, I would be left describing every detail if they so wished to know.
Basically, all I would love to see for my uses, is the ability to rename, make notes, and recall that info on the fly in game. For a better example, imagine me creating a world in the game with a ton of post-it-notes. Not actually building anything, or using graphics, but the ability to generate a world, rename it to what the local civilization calls their planet, and place a digital post-it-note briefly describing some of the planets local traditions and customs on the note. And be able to save the generated systems, and notes for use later, after the game has been shut down and reopened.
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| SpaceEngineer | Date: Sunday, 18.12.2011, 11:27 | Message # 6 |
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Author of Space Engine
Group: Administrators
Russian Federation
Messages: 4800
Status: Offline
| Well, now I understood why you call SE "tool". In multiplayer online game which I plan to make for SE, all is a possibility, as you have described can be implemented. Players might research space in their spaceships, discover new worlds, give a name to them and write notes about them. That info will be sent to the server and stored there. When some player enters the system that was previously discovered, the server sends the data to him, [i]and he can and names for planets, notes - all that discoverer save in server database. Any player can run a parametric search for any desired planet, but only in the server database. It is impossible to search for a planet that was not previously discovered. The game will also have an off-line play mode (or single player mode) and free a planetarium mode (as SE is now). The single player mode can use local database of planets as discovered by players, and a parametric search will work with it. The planetarium will not use a database, but do a search in whole procedural universe (with being limited by the radius from the camera position - because search in whole universe is almost impossible).
For this reason, I'm not sure is it a good idea to implement a parametric search in single player or planetarium mode. Because players can just enter planetarium mode and do search for a planet with their online char. To protect against it, I can just modify seed for random number generator in the planetarium mode - this results in a bit of a different universe, so useage of planetarium for such cheating search will be impossible. But I guess that one day, one guy, will hack the game and replace seed for planetarium with seed for online game. This hacked version of game will destroy the gameplay - as the discovery of planets is most important gameplay feature.
Another reason is the difficulty of a parametric search. With using of database (MySQL or such) it is easy. But search in the entire universe must be implemented in engine. It should generate all systems in a specified radius, and compare planets with search request. This may take a lot of time depending on search radius and request complexity.
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