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Geology on planets.
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| FastFourierTransform | Date: Saturday, 12.11.2016, 12:51 | Message # 16 |
 Pioneer
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| Quote cristobal_leal (  ) Anyway, I think maybe the solution is sacrifice some of realism and add a bit of fantasía. Is not necessary do a generator ultra-realistic of procedural planets.
Yes. I find it necessary. This is a planetarium also. There are many many fantasia games out there. SE is a big educational tool. It has to be kept realistic in my opinion.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Saturday, 12.11.2016, 14:21 | Message # 17 |
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| Quote FastFourierTransform ( ) Yes. I find it necessary. This is a planetarium also. There are many many fantasia games out there. SE is a big educational tool. It has to be kept realistic in my opinion.
A educational tool? SE is a game of exploration. The most important is offer a nice experience to the player. Even Vlad talks about do a MMO if raises enough money.
Also, he say is so dificult do a good algoritm of procedural generation of planets, or someting. Therefore, we have to look for alternatives.
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| Hornblower | Date: Saturday, 12.11.2016, 15:17 | Message # 18 |
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| cristobal_leal, The point is, Vlad can turn SE into an incredible game, but also keep the planetarium. SE would make a revolutionary educational tool and he could open the code up to NASA and ESA if they want to update the catalog there.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Saturday, 12.11.2016, 16:25 | Message # 19 |
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| But then what is the solution? None of us like to travel and find all the selenas and deserts with the same mountains, the same hills, the same plains, craters, volcanoes and coasts. Vlad says that increasing the variety of biomes and landscapes on procedural planets is a very difficult process, and at the same time you say that realism in the program is not negotiable.
Someone has to give in, or find a better idea. If not, we will not find a solution to this problem.
EDIT: On the other hand... being an educational tool and a space game are not incompatible concepts. The videogame can teach, and the educational tool can be fun.
Did anyone play The Magic School Bus in the solar system, or a zeta multimedia encyclopedia? It is an educational tool, but also a video game with the objective of be fun. Why SE can not do the same?
Edited by cristobal_leal - Saturday, 12.11.2016, 18:15 |
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| Hornblower | Date: Saturday, 12.11.2016, 18:18 | Message # 20 |
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World Builder
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| cristobal_leal, The SE game will be separate from SE. In other words, there will be 2 programs. One is a video game and the other is the planetarium free cam mode.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Saturday, 12.11.2016, 20:35 | Message # 21 |
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| Oh... But then nothing bad happens. Its possible do the videogame more "fantastic" and the planetarium more realistic.
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| Alek | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 03:26 | Message # 22 |
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| Quote cristobal_leal ( ) Oh... But then nothing bad happens. Its possible do the videogame more "fantastic" and the planetarium more realistic.
And is it not possible to have a totally realistic video game? Is that like saying you want to be a god or something? (Oh wait, there is already games for that!) To this day I haven't seen an actual game rather than tool or simulator that uses real space physics. Is this too much to ask for, or are the other hundred "fantastic" games out there not enough? I mean, NMS had the goal of being like what you're talking about yet people complain endlessly about that game, so why is it not possible to just make a game with realistic physics?
Living among the stars, I find my way. I grow in strength through knowledge of the space I occupy, until I become the ruler of my own interstellar empire of sorts. Though The world was made for the day, I was made for the night, and thus, the universe itself is within my destiny.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 09:02 | Message # 23 |
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| Man, i dont say that. I would also like a realistic game. But Vlad says it's very difficult. Also, the point is not the physical. The point is the realism and variety of the procedural planets.
I only say a alternative; Increase a little the fantasy, so that the player enjoys more exploring planets.
In the other hand... Can you tell me a game in which space exploration works nice? Please tell me and I will leave SE.
You cant say any title because all the "other hundred" games are crap.
Edited by cristobal_leal - Sunday, 13.11.2016, 09:14 |
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| Aerospacefag | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 10:05 | Message # 24 |
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| Quote cristobal_leal ( ) nice
Nice is a pretty broad definition for any genre, so I doubt there is a game that would be nice enough to you. But as you mention NMS, I say, you should probably see into the older games and decide it for yourself.
The first game that used procedural generation was Elite. So I guess you can take on Elite Dangerous, although it is more about space flight rather than planet exploration. For now, it is improving at a slow pace, but if you are not too sophisticated of a player, this would be enough.
The other one is pretty infamous - it is called Noctis, and it is very, very primitive-looking, but some people used to enjoy it quite a bit. There are other games, but they do not really use procedural generation as a centerpiece, and more concentrated on crafting. Take, for example, Empyrion, which is a younger brother of Space Engineers, and essentially a Minecraft in space.
And SE, of course, is unique in a sense that no other game is in fact a realistic planetarium, rather then a gameplay arena. So you have a choice, or you can just stay here and have patience.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 10:41 | Message # 25 |
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| Quote Aerospacefag ( ) you should probably see into the older games and decide it for yourself.
In other words: there are no games.
Graphics matter. Especially for a game that relies heavily on the visual beauty of celestial bodies. Of course there are many games with their good things. That does not mean they are good exploration games. They can be good simulators of ships, combat or trade. But none of those games is like SE. None of those is a pure exploration game. None have exploration as a strong point, (except no mans sky, shit, I prefer SE so far).
Quote Aerospacefag ( ) And SE, of course, is unique in a sense that no other game is in fact a realistic planetarium, rather then a gameplay arena. So you have a choice, or you can just stay here and have patience.
Ok, I'll wait. I only want help us, giving ideas. I dont hurry.
Edited by cristobal_leal - Sunday, 13.11.2016, 10:43 |
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| Watsisname | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 13:00 | Message # 26 |
 Galaxy Architect
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| Quote cristobal_leal ( ) But then what is the solution? None of us like to travel and find all the selenas and deserts with the same mountains, the same hills, the same plains, craters, volcanoes and coasts. Vlad says that increasing the variety of biomes and landscapes on procedural planets is a very difficult process, and at the same time you say that realism in the program is not negotiable.
Someone has to give in, or find a better idea. If not, we will not find a solution to this problem.
The problem with repetition in this setting is not due to emphasis on realism. It is due to procedural generation applied to very large numbers. There are a lot of planets in Space Engine. No matter how hard you work to add more variety to the 'biomes' and landscapes, with exploration you will eventually see the symptoms of procedural generation. People learned this fairly quickly with NMS.
It is a legitimate question to ask how to make a game based on this engine more rich and enjoyable in its gameplay. We have many threads about it.  Just please don't misunderstand what the basis of your concern actually is and what can or cannot work to solve it.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 14:14 | Message # 27 |
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| Ahhh... But is not necessary generate all the geography suddenly. The geology of each planet can be generated as we approach it? Would it generate too much traffic or something?
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| Aerospacefag | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 14:18 | Message # 28 |
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| Quote cristobal_leal ( ) None have exploration as a strong point, (except no mans sky, shit, I prefer SE so far).
Elite Dangerous does. It is a modern game and it has a lot of beauty in it. Although as far as I can see, you probably won't be as satisfied with this as with SE.
You don't have to despise these games from the past, they are just as beautiful on the inside as more modern projects, if you look past technological limitations.
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| cristobal_leal | Date: Sunday, 13.11.2016, 14:38 | Message # 29 |
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| I guess you're right. Sorry.
Anyway, for me the graphics are very important in an exploration game. I want to feel that I am really there, and it costs me a lot with some old graphics.
That's why old games of ships do not like me. The only one I liked was Freelancer, but I stopped playing it because of its graphics and content limitations.
I didn't play Elite dangerous, and i should.
I'm diverting the thread, excuse me.
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